if we want supers to survive

[Pennsboro23]

Crates are the poison pill.

At my local track, once they started crate racing, the super late model car counts have dwindled each year. Even a couple of the competitive super late model drivers there have stepped down to run crates.

[Cardirt0]

Crates were just the thing for some that wanted a reason to stop racing the Supers....They are just one of the nails..Add car Cost, add Payout, add Gas cost, Then Lost a lot of drivers from Age the last 6 or so years...And now not enuff new drivers.. Kids to day are just Do nothing or they find something new to do every year...To much Fad $hit now...
Well If Plant X is real it will Not matter...

[Crashmagnet]

At least we are talking about it. I was on here screaming it 7 or 8 years ago and got laughed at. Step one it the sport admitting it has a problem. These problems are man made, therefore, they can be solved by man.

[Highwayman]

Crate racing is bad for super lates.

You got that right, crates put the pillow over granny's face. They sold it as low cost get guys back racing but it only scavenged Super & Limited. Is it me or is 602 the most boring class of all?
Boo-Wah-Wah-Wah! Break, Turn, Repeat.

[Cardirt0]

At least we are talking about it. I was on here screaming it 7 or 8 years ago and got laughed at. Step one it the sport admitting it has a problem. These problems are man made, therefore, they can be solved by man.

But the ones that run it dont want to change it so it will DIE.

[dirtcrazy4u]

I love sitting there listening to RACE CARS bounce of rev limiters going past the flagman. You can watch them slowing down on the big tracks. That and I truly wish people would stop talking about crate garbage. There are guys out there with new xr 1 and longhorns . 38 to 42k for a chassis to run a crate car ? Your just stupid. Then the o so cost saving motor. After u bolt all your accessories on that CRATE pc of dodo, you have 11 to 13 grand in the motor. Your racing for purses 1/2 of what late models get. The only thing that is cheaper is what kis in the block and heads jot a darn thing more. Crate racing is killing late model racing. I hope you enjoy hearing those rev limiters bounce.

[Illtsate32]

I live in GA on the SC border, I only know of 1 track in both states combined that still has weekly Supers, Dixie Speedway. Laurens Speedway had them until about 2 years ago, but new promoter dumped Supers in favor of crates. On the subject of Crates, personally I hate them, boring to watch as paint drying and lately this 602 class is even worse. Crates were suppose to be this inexpensive, blue collar average guy class, but Mr Fastrak and some others didn't approach it the way they sold it. Instead of keeping it low key and inexpensive they came outta the gate with big purses, big sponsors and purposely went after and raped, pillaged, plundered and killed what remained of weekly Supers. They said they wanted to get guys back racing who quit and could no longer afford super, but instead went about luring super/limited racers to, "double dip" so they could in turn use their name recognition to further promote their movement. Super had its issues 12 years ago, but make no mistake "Crate" put the pillow over granny's face.As to cost issues in super, there really is only one of significance, the engines. I'm not in favor of limiting rules that intend to put everyone in the same power box, that is crates and you can see where that has gone. I'm more in favor of rules that make big $$$ horsepower unneeded or unusable. You have to go back a ways to see the progression, the evolution that took place and made all this possible. Prior to 1998 there was a lot of suspension diversity because traction was hard to come by and people where trying different things to promote corner speed. Then at the end of 98' Skip Arp/Joe Garrison moved the shock/spring behind the axle and stumbled into a way to initiate traction for acceleration, called "On The Hook". This setup provides instant traction, but was erratic, hard to control and hard on suspension pieces. From then until now its been a steady bit by bit evolution to attempt to control the side effects of this and maintain the positives and where we've ended up is with what I call a, "Pseudo-Wedge". Basically you prop the left rear of the car up on 2 solid rods, collapse the right front down onto a nearly solid bump/spring combo, limit the movement of the LF/RR/LR with cables and tune the axle alignment with bar angles in the RR. There is more to it, but that's the basics and you end up with a mostly rigid car with the LR corner stuck up in the air and the nose skimming the track(if you did it right). All these machinations get you to a point of mimicking an actual wedge late model from the early 80's, high downforce and mucho traction. Back in the 80's, same as now engine costs were driving people out of super late model. What the wise people back then realized was the best course wasn't to throw on a bunch of engine rules that usually end up further escalating costs, the solution was the elimination of traction. Without traction, big $$$ horsepower becomes useless and becomes self policing in a Libertarian kind of way as opposed to the Liberal way which is more and more engine rules(like Napcar). Unfortunately today too many lil niche companies have sprung up to take advantage of the "Psesudo-Wedge" phenomena and they lobby the powers that be to keep letting people run the cars the way they do. They'll say they are more exciting, more drivable, faster and they are, but thats what makes this phenomena so bad. To keep racing interesting and not dominated by those of the greatest means the cars need to be difficult to drive and inconsistent. To me the best course is one I've shared before, you kill the aero-traction and hinder the mechanical traction. First you change the nose height to a maximum height of say 6 inches all the way across. Second, No Bump stops.Third, no more MD3 style noses, go back to a more blunt HAT/STARS era nose w/o lips.Etc...There is more you can do, but the idea is to make it where you can't hike up or push the nose down so far. This will have the effect of unhooking the cars and decrease the need for big $$$ HP. if you can't use it, why buy it? My 2 cents after 31 years in the game. Peace.

Good post sir...whats happened since nascar and dlm have sealed off the noses..bad racing..totally agree minimum nose height, no bump stop coil bind stuff and a maximum rake on body from front to back these guys have so much rake in the car it looks like its broke in half behind the nose smh..

[ptown]

Crate racing is bad for super lates.

Crates are the poison pill.

Last night at Farmer City 18 late models started the feature, at least 8 of those were crates.

[Zonks32x]

Part of the answer is to run SLM less, yes I said less at each track. (Hear me out)

Tracks need to work TOGETHER to save SLM racing.
For argument's sake, let's say two tracks within 100 miles of each other run SLM weekly. (Doesn't matter if they race same night or not currently).

The possible solution
Each track runs SLM every other week
(Track A one week, Track B the next)
Each track doubles the current payout

Now the payout would look something like this
$2000, 1400, 1100, 800, 700, 600, 500, 450, 400, 375, 350, 330, 320, 310, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300

Potential for a combined points fund, or each track can have their own

Sponsor of the SLM would get more bang for their buck b/c they would get exposure at two tracks instead of one

Downside, racing once per week instead of twice, but for twice the $$.

[Krooser]

The two local tracks around here don't pay $!,000 to win... but it would be nice. I think they pay $750 to win... draw 20+ early in the year then it drops off some late in the year as it has done forever.

I say increase the bottom of the main with maybe $200 to start ... pay 4 spots in the heats maybe $90/75/60/50 (gives more guys a chance to make some $$$ if they wreck or break before the A main)... implement a shock rule... no wide bore blocks... ditch the various pseudo LM classes and put 'em all in one class then run a b main and let a few guys transfer... add weight in front of the firewall to try to equalize all the engines.

NO STRAIGHT UP STARTS! KEEP THE PROGRAM MOVING ALONG!!!

The key is to get the lo-buck guys back on the track... a competitive B main with the slower cars will vastly improve the show. If a guy thinks he can at least get his gas and pit pass money back he may try to run a full season or at least more often. But getting your ass kicked by big $$$ get's a little depressing to many guys.

[Forward Bite]

The only way I see weekly SLM racing survive is to have a 5000 dollar engine claim rule. That would create interest and excitement. I would attend the races weekly to see who gets claimed.

[President Clinton]

1st thing to making anything survive, is make it entertaining!!!!!! Super races and dirt racing in general is qualify and watch the train the rest of the night!!!! Just went to Illinois a couple of weeks ago and I was blown away, they "race"!!!!!! Make supers race, then it will fix itself!!!!! Draw and heats, not have 10 support classes! Why don't we have mods here?? Oh yeah, we can't out money each other with that deal????? Every track around me worries to much about what the "racer" is ants and less about the hat the fans want!!!! Put on a good show and people will want to be involved, including supers!!!! Just a southern observation!!!!

[Krooser]

Ptown has a good point about FALS... the average occasional fan can't tell or doesn't care that 8 cars in the main were crates... all he want's is a good show and a cold beer. Having 8 slower crates is no different than having 8 slower supers in the same feature.... when I was in the 70's-80's LM world we had 40 lates... some on '57 chevy frames and some on new Bemco, SCP or Jig-a-low chassis. The fast guys were in the A main the others in the semi.

It was the way it had always been. We had two classes and 100 cars in the pits. You ran what you could afford, built most of your own stuff and raced your *ss off.

I still get some promoters promotional material in my inbox... going to have to take a close look to see if there are any track operators out there talking about the same thing.

[ptown]

Ptown has a good point about FALS... the average occasional fan can't tell or doesn't care that 8 cars in the main were crates... all he want's is a good show and a cold beer. Having 8 slower crates is no different than having 8 slower supers in the same feature.... when I was in the 70's-80's LM world we had 40 lates... some on '57 chevy frames and some on new Bemco, SCP or Jig-a-low chassis. The fast guys were in the A main the others in the semi.

It was the way it had always been. We had two classes and 100 cars in the pits. You ran what you could afford, built most of your own stuff and raced your *ss off.

I still get some promoters promotional material in my inbox... going to have to take a close look to see if there are any track operators out there talking about the same thing.

.

That was at Farmer City not Fairbury and having almost half the field be crates is a joke and an insult to any knowledgeable fan. If tracks keep adding this class crates will be the death of super late models.

[jog49]

We have reached the point of no return. You can't fix super late model racing with regulations or rules. You either afford it or you race in a lesser class. The core of racing is speed. Any effort to minimize costs will result in "slower" racing. Take speed out of the formula and racing dies.
I will not pay to watch snails "race".