How can late model costs be reduced

[Illtsate32]

Everyone of these answers has merit. The chassis of today is were cost have gotten crazy. One. They can't take any bumping because something will either break or bend. Two. You almost have to have a engineer today. Chassis simulators, shock dyno's, spring rate checkers. All add up to one thing. They need all of the above to hook up the 800 + HP in the motor they bolt in. I saw a fairly recent pic of Bloomquist shop. In the background I counter 8 or 9 motors. I'm not sure if they were all his, but come on. You eliminate the rear suspension all together in today's cars and go with KISS. Torsion bar, coil over in front of the axle, no more double 5th coils with a chain pulling the center mass of the chassis down. Give them all a 4 " deck spoiler with no wikerbill. Then see if you need those monster motors. You save on motors you save on chassis. The cars are going to look the same, they are the most popular class of racing today, then will see who can and cannot drive a race car. A top of the line motor and chassis alone are knocking on 100k. And that gentleman is stupid. Cya at the world. Millions of dollars will be there for our enjoyment.

Good post..the shocks are insane with the bump stops and what not..it has taking driving out of the equation..I would say put them on 4 hockey pucks but im sure juicing would run rampant..but 5k shock package prob even more is making the guys who arent rich say the hell with it when they are getting out run by drivers who they know they are better than...

[Josh Bayko]

Every rule ever created to save racers money ends up costing them more in the long run. That's something to consider.

[old17ford]

Down here we run llms and there are some teams that dont care what they pay to win they just have to win at all cost .I have said before that big money teams have killed racing for the die hard racer . I think down here we need a shock and spring rule . Everybody cant buy the new trick thing every mouth .

[ClampedUp]

Every rule ever created to save racers money ends up costing them more in the long run. That's something to consider.

You always say that. So what's your input on how to save dirt late model racing??
Just take a look at the pi$$ poor super late model counts at your area tracks PPMS and Lernerville. Other than Stateline and Eriez the super late model counts flat out $uck in the Western Pa. area.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Lernerville cans the super lates in 2018 and brings in the Rush crate lates.

[Tireguy17]

I do not understand why chassis prices have ballooned out of control in recent years, other than the simple fact that chassis builders have all chosen to simply raise prices. Yes some manufacturers are using some "exotic" tubing, but for the most part, today's chassis is still just a bunch of tubing and brackets like it was 10 years ago. Yet pricing has increased considerably.

[Josh Bayko]

You always say that. So what's your input on how to save dirt late model racing??
Just take a look at the pi$$ poor super late model counts at your area tracks PPMS and Lernerville. Other than Stateline and Eriez the super late model counts flat out $uck in the Western Pa. area.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Lernerville cans the super lates in 2018 and brings in the Rush crate lates.

Super late model racing in general doesn't need saving. Regional shows and specials do pretty well.

Weekly racing has big problems though. One thing that definitely affects weekly racing in a negative manner is the proliferation of specials. On any given weekend, within a few hours, there a special show paying a solid purse somewhere, and that's where the cars go.

And Lernerville isn't dropping supers for next year. Theyre not freaking out or anything. Sprints went though car counts like this just a couple years ago, and now they're back to pretty healthy. Car counts there go in cycles, and they have for years.

[billetbirdcage]

Here is part of the problem with any rule you make: YOU CAN’T UNLEARN TECHNOLOGY

Think about that for a second, no matter how a rule is written there will be a way around it or another way to do it that likely costs more money.

Example: Modifieds and there steel non adjustable shock rule. Shock tech has came a long ways over the years so that rule might have saved some dollars originally, but the tech was out there in the high end aluminum shocks. So the shock manufacturers just made a take apart steel shock with all the same tech and they now cost 425.00 and you can’t adjust it. So not you got mod guys that have 10 shocks for the car at 425.00 instead of having just 4 at 800.00 each. Look at a USMTS guy before they could run adjustable shocks, many had 30 or more shocks hanging on the wall. Not saying you needed that many but if you got a couple different RF shocks and a couple different ones per corner it’s easy to end up with a minimum of 6 to 12 shocks.

On to the LR behind: This rule won’t change anything. We had a discussion with a promoter (very well known and a former racer) about this at a private test, he was of the opinion that doing away with this would slow the cars down and help. I told him that I could remove the shock/spring off the back right now and could run about the same lap times. He didn’t believe me, so I proved it too him by using the transponders to get lap times and came in and moved the spring to the front and reran the car. Now granted we happened to be testing something that allowed this really easy, but we ran within hundredths of what we was running before and there was 8 LM’s there and we was 2nd quick out of the cars that where there and several of them was nationally touring guys. It’s just motion ratio and spring rate, I can mount the spring about where ever and will the right changes can make the car react the same as behind the axle.

Some rules will shuffle around the speed of the cars and who is fast as guys redo and figure out what they need to do to get the car back where it was but it’s just temporary IMO.

The vast majority of the people that left the sport can't afford the engines anymore. It's not so much the cost of the engine as it's the freshening costs to run one. The average freshening on a LM engine today is around 10K for 1200 laps, so it costs around 10.00 a lap just in engine costs and nothing else. People wonder why guys don't run all the laps, well a 50 lapper cost you 500.00 just on engine costs if you don't break anything.

I don't have the answer but the engine costs are the number one reason, IMO. Somehow get rid of the need for 900HP, most likely taking away the traction and aero is a start

[RCJ]

1.Motor
2.tires and wheels
3.Shocks
4.Fuel (car and Rig)
5.General maintenance
6.Body
You could make rules to reduce the cost of each one ,but why.''Run what you brung and hope you brung enough" has always been the draw of L/M racing.The toughness and level of skill is what makes it so special if you do succeed.

[GRT32]

The bodies are out of control. Bodies that were run 20 years ago, 1 shock per wheel and a smaller spoiler with hard rear tires will take care of alot of the engine problems

[ptown]

The bodies are out of control. Bodies that were run 20 years ago, 1 shock per wheel and a smaller spoiler with hard rear tires will take care of alot of the engine problems

I like everything you say except tires, leave those as is and let them groove and sipe.

[No_Weak_Links]

I with you guys on a lot of things, but how on earth is changing the way you bend sheet metal going to change the amount of money a body costs?.....and I have never heard of body prices out of hand and ruining the sport.

[fastford]

man , this thread has about depressed me , i might as well put all my crap on racing junk and go fishing because no suggestions on here will help, if all you are worried about is money, then its over, like someones statement about the 3 wheeler race at walmart above , money will still be there and will always have an advantage.

[President Clinton]

8" hard tire and all the $$$ in the world will not matter!!!!!!!

[Barbecueboy]

This is some really good reading guys......I like vandes post concerning promoting......for every great promoter out there , 50 others run it like a motel 6 and just think that turning on the lights still works.

The Jeanie is out of the bottle on the supers, and when they price themselves out of reality finally I'll be just as content watching a great sportsman race.........but for now, I'll pay extra to be there when they come.

[Josh Bayko]

8" hard tire and all the $$$ in the world will not matter!!!!!!!

Tell that to the guys that are spending late model money to run modifieds. There's a reason b-mods are thing now.