The case for inverts

[slmcrewchief99]

If you are talking about weekly racing I'm gonna go totally different. I'm for heats with passing points. But my kick is the top 4 guys in points can start no better than 5th, even if they win their heat race. It will make better racing nightly and for yearly points.
If its series racing or bigger shows I'm on both sides of the fence. I'm for inverts of the heat winners but not the 2nd place cars. I'm for straight up starts as well as double heats with passing points. But for all of these its like everyone says. TRACK PREP!!! If the track is going to have a series come in or have a special event then they should be willing to have a track good enough to race on. If you have a good surface, then any of these formats will have good racing.

[pfd60]

No qualifying, pill draw for starting spot in heats, passing points for heats, then top 6 in passing points from heats draw for starting spot. No invert then. Would make for great racing. The good guys will find there way to the front. And would make for a great shorter show for the fans.

[TerryM]

Senoia isn't a good example. I've lived in Georgia for almost four years now. I've seen great racing at two tracks -- Senoia and Cochran. They race from top to bottom at Senoia. If you win from the pole, it's because you were the fastest car. Not because you started there. Inverts, points, etc, should be mandatory at all tracks. If you can't pass, fix it.

[clayman2]

drawing for spots equals RACING that's why they are called race tracks lots of guys are good drivers but not good racers quote from roudy burns get u a car and lets see how u do in a crowd !!

[superstock79]

maybe that's why weekly shows for DLM are dying and weekly shows for sprints and big blocks are still going strong?? Don't know, but has to be some correlation.

Apparently u have not seen the crowd for the World 100 vs the crowd for the Kings Royal... place looks like a ghost town when the SPRINTS are there n comparison to the Late Models....

[dirt crow]

I'm a fan. I want inverts. I wanna see racing. Wanna see that fast car get back to the front. If I was a driver, car owner, crew chief, crewmen, i'd look at it differently.

[brsteg]

inverts will and have been debated for a long time.

Dirt Track Racing as a whole (sprints, lates, mods, etc.) are the only forms of motorsport that use inverts (or re-draw), nothing else does. All the top forms of motorsports line up straight up by time (and only run a feature as well).

I'd say the biggest issue dirt track racing has currently is track prep. A poorly prepared track will lead to poor racing period. Too dry it's one lane follow the leader and hope you don't blow a tire. Too wet and it's one lane follow the leader, everyone is fast and the leaders can't even drive past last place.

Very few tracks have consistent enough track prep to allow for inverts (in heats or features) and that is why most drivers and teams are adamantly against inverts. There is no perfect format (straight up starts, inverts, passing points, pill draw), but the racing could be better if track prep was better.

Bull, Pavement Late Models do inverts commonly. And not going to buy Motorsport as a whole deal. Too many levels and sanctions; but inverts and redraws are used elsewhere in the landscape.

[manwplan]

Inverts are not the perfect answer. Case in point the $8100 to win race at Bedford. The track was in good shape and there was plenty of passing in the feature. However Colbey Frye who had a legitimate fast race car but hugely benefited from the invert and a redraw. He was 4th quick time in his group, only a tenth off of fast time. And they inverted 4 for the heats. A tenth is nothing folks. He then drew the outside pole for the feature and then led every lap. He had a great car and deserved to win. Had the invert and redraw not fallen his way who knows if he wins or not. My point is they did all this inverting and redrawing which everyone thinks is needed and yet a guy from the front row led every lap. The days of guys coming from deep to win are few and far between. The good cars are only separated by 1-2 tenths. These days if there is any passing at all and cars are using the whole track I'm satisfied with the racing.

[RiffRaf67]

Apparently u have not seen the crowd for the World 100 vs the crowd for the Kings Royal... place looks like a ghost town when the SPRINTS are there n comparison to the Late Models....

This is a false statement. This years Kings Royal appeared to me to be more full than this year's Dream and on-par with a typical (last 10 years) World 100.
FAR cry from a "Ghost town"...

[mskdorf]

Record crowd for the King's Royal this year. I'm sure there were more people for that than any World. Sprints do, unfortunately, bring a bigger crowd.

[old17ford]

Invert the top 6 would be ok if have a good track to race on . But down here in the south we have tracks that if you set fast time and start 6th the best you can hope for is 5th . Train race tracks .

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Record crowd for the King's Royal this year. I'm sure there were more people for that than any World. Sprints do, unfortunately, bring a bigger crowd.

That isn't very intuitive when their weekly racing base is almost no existent.

[vande077]

Bull, Pavement Late Models do inverts commonly. And not going to buy Motorsport as a whole deal. Too many levels and sanctions; but inverts and redraws are used elsewhere in the landscape.

maybe I didn't say it and I haven't re-read it yet. But the Top Level of virtually all racing does straight up starts.

I consider pavement late models as stock cars, and the top level of stock cars is NASCAR, and they do straight up starts in all 3 divisions and ARCA does as well.

F1's ladder series all do straight up starts

IndyCar's ladder series all do straight up starts

USAC Silver Crown (their top series) does straight up starts and locks in most the field based on Time Trials as I recall.

WoO Sprints are the top division of sprint cars (sorry USAC fans) and they have almost gotten to the point of straight up starts (heat races are already and the dash can be as well, so quick time can win the feature without ever passing a car all night)

WoO Lates and Lucas Oil are the top division of dirt late models. I know WoO does a re-draw for the top 8, but don't see enough of their races to see if heats are straight up.

Like it or not, dirt racing is the only form of racing at it's top level that still inverts. I will still maintain that the format makes no difference, it's TRACK PREP that needs to be addressed.

[Snake X3]

I'm late on this thread, but it's a topic I have a pretty strong opinion on. Regardless of how drivers qualify for a feature IMO they shouldn't be penalized for excellence. I understand people that say they want a good show, but as many others have said, if the track is good then there will be passing. If the track is poor and there is no passing I still want to see the best man win, not the guy that is given an advantage because he can't compete on equal footing with someone else. It's a sport...a competition to see who is the best. Other professional sports don't penalize the best teams during a game. I don't know why it's supposed to be different in racing.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

maybe I didn't say it and I haven't re-read it yet. But the Top Level of virtually all racing does straight up starts.

I consider pavement late models as stock cars, and the top level of stock cars is NASCAR, and they do straight up starts in all 3 divisions and ARCA does as well.

F1's ladder series all do straight up starts

IndyCar's ladder series all do straight up starts

USAC Silver Crown (their top series) does straight up starts and locks in most the field based on Time Trials as I recall.

WoO Sprints are the top division of sprint cars (sorry USAC fans) and they have almost gotten to the point of straight up starts (heat races are already and the dash can be as well, so quick time can win the feature without ever passing a car all night)

WoO Lates and Lucas Oil are the top division of dirt late models. I know WoO does a re-draw for the top 8, but don't see enough of their races to see if heats are straight up.

Like it or not, dirt racing is the only form of racing at it's top level that still inverts. I will still maintain that the format makes no difference, it's TRACK PREP that needs to be addressed.

A lot of the cars you mention can barely pass each other under the best of circumstances. Even ignoring that, shouldn't we strive for better entertainment?