Knoxville Nationals Reduced to 80 Laps

[NY DIRT]

Your opinion is anyone who doesn't like the change is a keyboard warrior. How bout we change that to paying fan. How does your opinion sound then?

I really am too dumb, stupid, and mindless to have a opinion on this subject, but just keep piling on.It makes me feel loved... LOL

[joshroth14]

$35.00 for 80 laps around Knoxville is still a good value for me. I'd rather it be 80 laps instead of having a fuel stop. Drivers would run light the first half of the race and then bolt on weight at the pitstop and Lucas would have to issue another "Bloomquist" rule and you guys would complain about that too. If $7 for 20 less laps is too much for you to spend then chances are you didnt need to go in the first place.

[vande077]

$35.00 for 80 laps around Knoxville is still a good value for me. I'd rather it be 80 laps instead of having a fuel stop. Drivers would run light the first half of the race and then bolt on weight at the pitstop and Lucas would have to issue another "Bloomquist" rule and you guys would complain about that too. If $7 for 20 less laps is too much for you to spend then chances are you didnt need to go in the first place.

Your math only works if they only come for the feature to watch and don't come for the D,C or B mains though right? (for those getting mad, I am just kidding and trying to stir the pot a little).

Like I stated above, the tracks website, twitter nor facebook pages have said anything regarding this change. Seems strange to me given their track record.

My guess is that there have been discussions, but Lucas Oil took it upon themselves to send out a Press Release before every t was crossed and i was dotted. No inside knowledge mind you, but given how Knoxville personnel works with all others when it comes to sanctioning bodies and sponsors on press releases, this one just feels different to me.

[joshroth14]

Feels like Knoxville wants it to be a 100 lap race and Lucas Oil drivers/officials wants it to be an 80 lap race. Maybe Knoxville will eventually run this race unsanctioned.

[huskerdirt]

Your math only works if they only come for the feature to watch and don't come for the D,C or B mains though right? (for those getting mad, I am just kidding and trying to stir the pot a little).

Like I stated above, the tracks website, twitter nor facebook pages have said anything regarding this change. Seems strange to me given their track record.

My guess is that there have been discussions, but Lucas Oil took it upon themselves to send out a Press Release before every t was crossed and i was dotted. No inside knowledge mind you, but given how Knoxville personnel works with all others when it comes to sanctioning bodies and sponsors on press releases, this one just feels different to me.

Maybe nothing has been mentioned because Knoxville has mailed it in for the season other than the daily back pat remainder on how many days until the LM Nationals. If they gave 1/25th the effort they do for the Sprint Nationals. Nobody would have any reason to question what was going on.

[cjsracing]

huskerdirt,

why do you think Knoxville has mailed it in?

I have seen TV commercials and heard radio commercials advertising the Late Model Nationals. I actually think it's pretty sweet to see a Late Model race commercial come on while watching American Ninja Warrior.

[vande077]

Maybe nothing has been mentioned because Knoxville has mailed it in for the season other than the daily back pat remainder on how many days until the LM Nationals. If they gave 1/25th the effort they do for the Sprint Nationals. Nobody would have any reason to question what was going on.

Like I said, I have no inside knowledge at all.

I do know that compared to the Sprint Nationals, this is not near the undertaking on multiple fronts with #1 being sponsors. Plus the WoO really have nothing to do with the Sprint Nationals other than their teams and drivers being at the race, it's run under Knoxville rules with Knoxville officials.

The Late Models are run under Lucas Rules with Lucas Oil officials, Lucas is considered the sponsor of the event and the crowd is about 1/4 of what they bring in for the 410 Nationals, I'd venture to say the ASCS 360 Nationals may have more fans in the stands as well over the course of the 3 day events). My guess is their contract might state what the series can do or not do as well. Maybe Knoxville Raceway has no say in the # of laps, it's just something that none of us know.

I do not believe that Kendra, John McCoy or any of the other staff at the track is "mailing it in". From a social media standpoint, some of the "push" during the Sprint Car Nationals seems to be sponsor related as "favorites, views, likes, shares, etc., etc.) are measurables that a large company like 5Hour Energy looks at. Lucas Oil owning the series and sponsoring the race probably don't emphasize that as much for this event.

[huskerdirt]

huskerdirt,

why do you think Knoxville has mailed it in?

I have seen TV commercials and heard radio commercials advertising the Late Model Nationals. I actually think it's pretty sweet to see a Late Model race commercial come on while watching American Ninja Warrior.

I just don't see any effort from them hyping this race up. Once the sprint Nationals are over it's like they go into hibernation mode from the social media side of things. Leading up to the sprint Nationals they would throw out stats, history, and who has pre entered. I know we are second fiddle, but I don't think they even know that there track hosts the 4th(IMO) biggest late model race in the country.

I'm not just saying it about this year, it seems this way almost every year.

Cool you are getting some commercials out there, didn't know that.

[huskerdirt]

Like I said, I have no inside knowledge at all.

I do know that compared to the Sprint Nationals, this is not near the undertaking on multiple fronts with #1 being sponsors. Plus the WoO really have nothing to do with the Sprint Nationals other than their teams and drivers being at the race, it's run under Knoxville rules with Knoxville officials.

The Late Models are run under Lucas Rules with Lucas Oil officials, Lucas is considered the sponsor of the event and the crowd is about 1/4 of what they bring in for the 410 Nationals, I'd venture to say the ASCS 360 Nationals may have more fans in the stands as well over the course of the 3 day events). My guess is their contract might state what the series can do or not do as well. Maybe Knoxville Raceway has no say in the # of laps, it's just something that none of us know.

I do not believe that Kendra, John McCoy or any of the other staff at the track is "mailing it in". From a social media standpoint, some of the "push" during the Sprint Car Nationals seems to be sponsor related as "favorites, views, likes, shares, etc., etc.) are measurables that a large company like 5Hour Energy looks at. Lucas Oil owning the series and sponsoring the race probably don't emphasize that as much for this event.

Good points, I didn't take some of sponsor stuff into consideration. 5 hour is definitely mainstream then Lucas Oil, so that makes sense. Everybody has compared the 360 crowd to the late model crowd. Some say the 360s out draw LMs by a whisker.

My mailing it in comment was probably too harsh. Just my general feel on the event.

[vande077]

Good points, I didn't take some of sponsor stuff into consideration. 5 hour is definitely mainstream then Lucas Oil, so that makes sense. Everybody has compared the 360 crowd to the late model crowd. Some say the 360s out draw LMs by a whisker.

My mailing it in comment was probably too harsh. Just my general feel on the event.

I'd say the 360's had a big increase this year (especially for the prelim nights).

Another consideration that I didn't even think of until just now as well. Many of the part-time staff that help with marketing, sponsors, etc. are teachers and coaches in the local school district. They all went back to their regular jobs a week after the sprint nationals ended, many of the part timers that help with signage (banners, etc.) went back to college the Sunday following the sprint nationals as well.

The timing of this event actually hurts it locally. The part time staff is no longer able to put in the time that they do for the other events as their "real jobs" take back over.

Personally I think this is one of the best races of the year at Knoxville, but it'd be better served being in June IMO.

[ptown]

I'd say the 360's had a big increase this year (especially for the prelim nights).

Another consideration that I didn't even think of until just now as well. Many of the part-time staff that help with marketing, sponsors, etc. are teachers and coaches in the local school district. They all went back to their regular jobs a week after the sprint nationals ended, many of the part timers that help with signage (banners, etc.) went back to college the Sunday following the sprint nationals as well.

The timing of this event actually hurts it locally. The part time staff is no longer able to put in the time that they do for the other events as their "real jobs" take back over.

Personally I think this is one of the best races of the year at Knoxville, but it'd be better served being in June IMO.

IMO the problem is Knoxville is sprint car county and people have no interest in late models. I went to a regular Knoxville show a month ago and it seemed to me they drew almost as many fans for that as they do for the late model race.

[vande077]

I just don't see any effort from them hyping this race up. Once the sprint Nationals are over it's like they go into hibernation mode from the social media side of things. Leading up to the sprint Nationals they would throw out stats, history, and who has pre entered. I know we are second fiddle, but I don't think they even know that there track hosts the 4th(IMO) biggest late model race in the country.

I'm not just saying it about this year, it seems this way almost every year.

Cool you are getting some commercials out there, didn't know that.

Hard to hype up the pre-entries when the teams won't pre-enter either. The deadline has come and gone and still only 30 official entries thus far.

Drivers and teams are their own worst enemies IMO. They complain about lack of promotion then do nothing to help the promotors out. How can a track advertise you being there if you don't pre-enter? They can't. So they both suffer, Drivers have less of "their" fans in attendance and sell less t-shirts and the tracks sell less tickets.

I too see TV commericals (DesMoines TV market) and that includes on NBCSN during the Southern 500 last Saturday night.

Is the hype as much as the sprint nationals? No, but part of the sprint nationals hype is the history of the event (57 years), hard to do the same thing with it being year 14.

[huskerdirt]

Hard to hype up the pre-entries when the teams won't pre-enter either. The deadline has come and gone and still only 30 official entries thus far.

Drivers and teams are their own worst enemies IMO. They complain about lack of promotion then do nothing to help the promotors out. How can a track advertise you being there if you don't pre-enter? They can't. So they both suffer, Drivers have less of "their" fans in attendance and sell less t-shirts and the tracks sell less tickets.

I too see TV commericals (DesMoines TV market) and that includes on NBCSN during the Southern 500 last Saturday night.

Is the hype as much as the sprint nationals? No, but part of the sprint nationals hype is the history of the event (57 years), hard to do the same thing with it being year 14.

I completely agree with you about the pre entries and how drivers complain for lack of exposure. It's hard to convince people around 70 cars are gonna be there and yet only 30 are on the entry list 9 days out.

I don't expect the hype to be as much as the sprints. But the Late Model Nationals have some history there now after 14 years and it definitely has prestige. I just want the track to feel like they want the late models there. I just don't feel the track is overly excited for the race. It's almost like it's an "Oh by the way" event. I hope I'm dead wrong.

[vande077]

IMO the problem is Knoxville is sprint car county and people have no interest in late models. I went to a regular Knoxville show a month ago and it seemed to me they drew almost as many fans for that as they do for the late model race.

Living in Knoxville, I'd say at most 1000 local people attend races weekly. Everyone else is from out of town or state (I personally know people that drive from Kansas City, Sioux Falls and Illinois every Saturday night).

Iowa isn't even sprint car country (Knoxville is the only track in the entire state that runs 410 sprints weekly). Iowa is a Late Model and IMCA Modified state IMO as there are multiple tracks that run them every weekend.

The Late Model Nationals has the potential to be bigger than the Sprint Nationals IMO. Couple things hold it back, lack of tradition, aging fanbase, timing (September is not ideal), and sponsorship (you don't see many big companies involved in teams or events and that is the biggest difference to me between Sprint Cars and Late Models).

Sprint Car Teams letter up their haulers and are rolling billboards for those companies and those companies include: Ford Performance (Donny Schatz), Textron Off Road/Artic Cat (Donny Schatz), NAPA (Brad Sweet), Great Clips (Daryn Pittman), Eneos Motor Oil (Shane Stewart), GoMuddy.com (David Gravel), GoMuddy.com (Kerry Madsen), FVP (Brian Brown), Hercules Tires (Greg Wilson), Casey's General Stores (Brian Brown-410's, Austin McCarl-410's, Matt Moro-360's, McKenna Hasse-360's) and many other companies that sponsor EVENTS such as 5Hour Energy, AGCO, Brownell's, Karavan Trailers, Ohio Logistics, Champion Racing Oil and Budweiser.

Late Model Teams leave their trucks and trailers blank as they roll up and down the highway and give ZERO visibility for their sponsors outside of the race track. Thankfully the Series at least have their trucks lettered up.

I see a stacker hauler and all I know is it's some kind of racecar inside it (because I'm a fan of racing), to Joe Blow driving down the interstate behind it it's just a semi.

I see a sprint car hauler and I see all kinds of logos, the series sticker, and on some "follow me to the races" and on a couple, they have the back door wrapped as just a photo of the inside of the trailer with the car inside. Others have a photo of the car. This is something "eye catching" for those non-race fans as they travel up and down the highway as well. Heck, almost all of them have a t-shirt trailer that they have all lettered up too that they pull behind their motorhome or another tow vehicle.

As a fan, I would hope that a young driver and team owner in Late Models would realize the potential they have and do what a guy like Brian Brown is doing on the sprint car side. His sponsors remain loyal (even when he had a bad year last year) as he gives them a great ROI with all his other stuff and it ends up being a win for all involved (Brian, the companies, the TRACKS, and the FANS - free give-aways, great Social Media interaction).

[vande077]

I completely agree with you about the pre entries and how drivers complain for lack of exposure. It's hard to convince people around 70 cars are gonna be there and yet only 30 are on the entry list 9 days out.

I don't expect the hype to be as much as the sprints. But the Late Model Nationals have some history there now after 14 years and it definitely has prestige. I just want the track to feel like they want the late models there. I just don't feel the track is overly excited for the race. It's almost like it's an "Oh by the way" event. I hope I'm dead wrong.

I think they are doing more and more every year for the Late Models, it's just harder to see because it's a "slow build" that they do year after year, nothing splashy or huge, just constant, consistent improvement.