How much "cheating" is actually taking place in Crate Late Model racing?

[kidrock]

You also can't stop the cheating if you don't tech but, if you do tech and you catch them you make the penalty so severe no one would want to do it again.

[riddle28]

my question has always been why do they need to be sealed? why not tear downs like a regular motor?

[PushinTheLimit]

I have raced with all the guys that are mentioned in the article. Some of those guys, I race against weekly amd it makes it tough to run against so many good teams... wins are hard to come by. But I'm ok with that, just means we have to work a little harder on our stuff and keep trying to get better every race.

I don't think there's a ton of cheating in motors. There's been quite a few tear downs this year and that alone should keep most guys in check from doing something they shouldn't be doing or they will get caught. I think there could be some cheating going on in "other areas" though.

Crate was supposed to be a more budget friendly class for guys that still wanted to run late models but couldn't afford to run supers. That's why I jumped in on that 4 years ago. I just don't have the funding to compete with supers and crates just makes sense for me. I just think some of the cost effective rules got lost along the way. It was never meant to replace supers.

[RW57]

I agree if they would tech regularly they might control it some but racers can t help themselves if it makes it go faster we are gonna buy it. Someone had a good point why seal it handle it like a regular tear down think about it what do seals accomplish other than someone saying it has seals must be legal yea right. A friend of mine had a clone 604 built but had 6 in rods everything else was right cam heads intake etc no seal bolts ran it till he sold car no one ever checked to see if it had bolts.at least the racer can put it back together him self .

[tb1545]

I truely believe the engines are not as big of a problem as most people say. Do you think they put in a super special engine to make davenport drive better than the previous driver of that crate car he raced at Charlotte? or maybe talent and setup matter more since the engines are mostly all similar. The issue i have with crates currently is they require the same $35k to $45k roller and shock packages to compete as the super late models. the only difference is one engine package costs $12k and one costs $60 to $80k. The original idea and promotion of crates was "bring back out the 12-15 year old cars, put a crate in, and compete for wins". That is not close to the truth in todays technology of racing. So those guys that dont have the talent and/or equipment now cry that anyone beating them must be cheating up the crates cuz theres no way they lost due to that guy just being better than him.

[PushinTheLimit]

In the East TN area, they have another late model class called "Sportsman". It's now the low budget late model class. But, the rules from track to track are all over the place. But it does limit the shock costs to a certain degree, but you could still bring a brand new chassis and run the class. At one time, one track tried to limit the chassis to be at least 10 years old... but I think it became a hard rule to in-force.

Also, the purse for the Sportsman class is not all that great either. It does keep some of the heavy hitters out of it, but to the point if you don't win... you will most likely lose money that night.

[Illtsate32]

In all honesty I dont think its the chassis near as much as the components...you can put updates on an older chassis..and forgive me im not very engine savy but if you got 6 inch rods in a crate how can you tech to find that out?

[grt74]

I truely believe the engines are not as big of a problem as most people say. Do you think they put in a super special engine to make davenport drive better than the previous driver of that crate car he raced at Charlotte? or maybe talent and setup matter more since the engines are mostly all similar. The issue i have with crates currently is they require the same $35k to $45k roller and shock packages to compete as the super late models. the only difference is one engine package costs $12k and one costs $60 to $80k. The original idea and promotion of crates was "bring back out the 12-15 year old cars, put a crate in, and compete for wins". That is not close to the truth in todays technology of racing. So those guys that dont have the talent and/or equipment now cry that anyone beating them must be cheating up the crates cuz theres no way they lost due to that guy just being better than him.

im really not bashing here, but who in the hell pays that kind of money for super engines, ill sell them any combo they want for those prices
35-40 for a engine, oil system 3000 (thats even being a little high but reasonable) whats left???? headers a grand, couple of carbs another 2500, 50 at the most and thats if you buy all brand new stuff, you can be in a competitive super late model engine set up for 25-30 and if you have the talent you could run with the national guys for that, its all about doing your homework
and im talking about pro power, custom, cornett,ect ,national guys trade there stuff in every year, you can get one fresh for 20-25 and should last two years worth of local racing ( or very close to it)

[tb1545]

Sorry grt74, it's been a few years since I priced open stuff out so I guess I added a bit too much too it. Call it 40-55 to buy all new top of the line open engine stuff then.

[dirty bert]

Didn't Jesse Lowe get thrown out at Boyd's earlier on the year?

Got him on valve springs I think

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Didn't Jesse Lowe get thrown out at Boyd's earlier on the year?

Somewhere, yes he did.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

This class was brought on because of the hi costs of slm racing. What you have is guy's that bought into the crate crap garbage that is in the south with fastrack and another group I believe in ohio rush that wants to take over all racing. That group has lates, modifieds and I have heard they want a pc of sprint car racing. So what you have is guy's that bought in and the owners that are buying all high tech gear. There spending money on new cars, bodies , shocks and last but not least the motors with all the latest bolt on stuff. Carbs are costing guys a min. of 1000.00 cheating No, but there out spending everyone. These cars need limits on what accessories can be bolted to that motor, chassis limits, cheap shocks. O by the way. JD just won at Charlotte. I wonder what that car owner paid for that win. Money has taken over racing. A new hi tech rocket or longhorn should not be on the track. Those 5995.00 motors end up costing 13,000 plus. Crate racing will end up hurting racing in the long run, few if any tracks in the south have slm on a weekly card. It,s only going to chase fans away. On a local level I think the Midwest has the strongest weekly slm still out there. Bla.

We used to be Fastrack in Ohio. Specifically NE Ohio, WPa. And they had good car counts. But, Fastrack according to Vicki who owns Rush, they were being ignored by Fastrack. So she started Rush, it has grown some, but Sharon gave up on crate lates except for specials a couple years ago. They just don’t wanna pay anything, and car counts dwindled. There is the crate Ne style modifieds, and I think you are right on wanting to start a sprint class. Been tried before and hasn’t went very well.

[mcarter815]

In the East TN area, they have another late model class called "Sportsman". It's now the low budget late model class. But, the rules from track to track are all over the place. But it does limit the shock costs to a certain degree, but you could still bring a brand new chassis and run the class. At one time, one track tried to limit the chassis to be at least 10 years old... but I think it became a hard rule to in-force.Also, the purse for the Sportsman class is not all that great either. It does keep some of the heavy hitters out of it, but to the point if you don't win... you will most likely lose money that night.

There are guys not running a national tour who actually expect to make money?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

There are guys not running a national tour who actually expect to make money?

Yeah. That is the easier path to profit, honestly.

[Brian Gray]

more shock costs post. can anyone hear me laughing because its loud. the biggest cheats are in the engines and most of the time its obvious you can hear it.

the tires we have proven are another and ive finally came to the conclusion its not primarily tire dope. now many people use it dont get me wrong the tire dope business is enormous you dont get that way because people arent buying.

but shocks are laughable and raising those issues to create rules against shocks hurt 1 person just like the crate deal. THE LOWEST FUNDED GUY !

crates have not helped to build the sport they have definitely not cut any cost . watch my video on the shocks that will clear up the shock cost myth, the engines are the same way. crates have their place it wasnt to be mandated so everyone has to run them, at least sealed for sure isnt the answer. we lost our way when we started allowing non production type engines, when the tire companies started interfering with the rules and tracks quit enforcing the rules they already had in place! fix these 3 and watch what would happen. btw the same guys would still be fast but moral would eventually come back up is my prediction.