Jay D!ckens Facebook post - Good Read on cost.

[play4kps]

A lot of use here love dirt late model racing because in the past, it was the unexpected guy winning a rave or finishing top 5. Thats what gave the sport charm, thats what drew the fans. Everybody loved to see the locals run and possibly beat the big budget guys. I guess Im different, I always root for the underdogs, honestly I hate seeing Bobby, Davenport or Pierce win all the time. I can tell you I would much rather see Zack Dohm, Rusty, Krob, John Henry or the likes of those guys any day than a team that will spend whatever it takes to win.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

This is a fair point, but the smart guys are going to figure it out regardless of how far we take the bodies back or slim them down.

True, and that's fine. We just need to bring the horsepower requirements down.

[Illtsate32]

Here's what I'd do, and it wouldn't even change the look of the cars that much.

Straighten the noses.

Make the ears equal on both sides, max 1" higher than the filler panel.

Make the deck and doors flat as a pancake from the back of the hood to the spoiler.

Doors, quarters, and skirts have to be equal height on both sides.

Flat and level roof.

Fill in the sail panels, if you want a window, it's gotta be covered with lexan.

cut the spoiler down to 4".

You could tech all of this with a tape measure and a level.

I like those ideas Josh, if they would enforce those rules the guys would HALF to change their setups because they would have all kinds of clearance problems, couldnt have a itty bitty right side door and an almost non existent rf nose...

[Josh Bayko]

True, and that's fine. We just need to bring the horsepower requirements down.

True hockey pucks for tires would help that a ton, too. Only trouble with that is it would have the tire juice producers living in mansions and driving Bentleys.

[riddle28]

the cars havent even changed that much from like 04-now. if you take the bare frames, the new ones have the front ends raised to stay out of the track and thats the biggest difference. Every bit of the increased costs is due to the advancements in shock/spring technology. Now if you wanna run lucas, all you have to do is call longhorn, theyll get you a new car, call penske, theyll get you as much traction as you have money to spend and call durham to push that traction. when you take traction away then costs will go down, it starts with the shocks

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

the cars havent even changed that much from like 04-now. if you take the bare frames, the new ones have the front ends raised to stay out of the track and thats the biggest difference. Every bit of the increased costs is due to the advancements in shock/spring technology. Now if you wanna run lucas, all you have to do is call longhorn, theyll get you a new car, call penske, theyll get you as much traction as you have money to spend and call durham to push that traction. when you take traction away then costs will go down, it starts with the shocks

Shocks are way overrated.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

True hockey pucks for tires would help that a ton, too. Only trouble with that is it would have the tire juice producers living in mansions and driving Bentleys.

Yeah, the tire route is a bad way to go. We need rules you can enforce at the track. The best path doesn't outlaw existing parts or require tech that isn't simple. It uses simple physics to rein the cars in.

[Josh Bayko]

Yeah, the tire route is a bad way to go. We need rules you can enforce at the track. The best path doesn't outlaw existing parts or require tech that isn't simple. It uses simple physics to rein the cars in.

That's the big reason I advocate for body rules that can be checked with a level and tape measure. I don't know what to do with the suspension, other than maybe a track width rule, where the front and back have to match. Could check that with a snap line.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

That's the big reason I advocate for body rules that can be checked with a level and tape measure. I don't know what to do with the suspension, other than maybe a track width rule, where the front and back have to match. Could check that with a snap line.

Good ideas Josh. The lates and mods are so offset now it’s nuts.

[hardracer32]

So a few people have kinda hit the nail on the head. Jay D!ckens is completely right. There are some huge problems that need to be addressed or the sport we love is going to shrivel up and die. And yes, shocks and bodies would solve almost all of the issues. But some people say that those 2 items are small taters compared to engine costs, well, yes they are, but, if you reign in those 2 things then it won't do anybody any good to have a $40k engine. Bodies, suspension, shocks, etc. would all negate all that horsepower. If you make these guys run bodies that would prohibit all this suspension travel, then that would alleviate a lot of this. Just take the Droop Rule that Ray Cook introduced. It's a step in the right direction of taking some of the horsepower out of the equation. And to the people that say "You're just trying to make it a SPEC series", thats complete BS. Just because you have rules doesn't make it SPEC! People can buy from any manufacterer they want they just cant buy shocks that cost $8k a set.
It's no different than any other class, you can't run those shocks in Open Wheel Modifieds, you cant run them in Street Stocks, it's just part of the rules. If you get the rules back to where people don't have to have an engineer involved in order to be competitive you will see the car counts go back up. If you get it to where people don't have to have a $3k piece of diagnostic equipment on their trailer just to go run a regional series, then you will see car counts go back up. If you get it to where older engine technology can be competitive with these $40k engines then you will see car counts go back up. I wouold have never even tried to gete into SLM's if it wasn't for the SPEC engine packages that were doing so well when I first started racing DLM. That very engine was the thing that allowed me to go out and give it a whirl. If you cut down on number of tires that guys have to carry in order to go race then you will see car counts go back up. A lot of these things could be put into place very quickly with little to no cost to most teams. Some of them would have to be implemented over time but every one of these things would help with the current situation.

Dirt Late Model racing has never been "cheap", no matter which route you took to get there. But, it has always been accessible to the average Joe if he just worked hard and spent what money he did have to go racing wisely. It has always been somewhat attainable and THAT is what made it so popular! THAT is what made great car counts! THAT is what built the sport! Not this eliteist attitude of "let the best of the best rise to the top", or "if you can't afford it race something else". Those attitudes are going to kill the sport! If you want to race a $100k car for little or no money you can do that in Trans Am TA2. Or you can go race Asphalt Late Models. Why do you think that asphalt racing on the weekly level is almost extinct now? Because they let this kind of crap get out of control! There used to be about 5 or 6 asphalt tracks operating in GA on a weekly basis not too many years ago. Now I dont think there is even 1! Wake up LUCAS, WoO, SAS, weekly tracks! Come together and get this crap fixed!
Even Crate Late Models have gotten out of control. They had a decent concept going(except I never liked having the engines sealed) but now a Crate car costs as much as a decent Super used to cost, IT'S INSANE!!! What was the point of getting engine costs down to $8k but then letting shocks increase by a factor of 10, LITERALLY, and chassis increased by 2X!

Get it together people!

[DGI]

100% agree!

[Matt49]

Shocks have become such a scapegoat that it's become funny to me. People seem to think you just bolt on some magic technology from Penske or whomever and you can all of the sudden hook up 900HP on a dry slick track. That's a myth that lives in the grandstands and on 4m but has no place in the reality of racing.
The beginning of the end that is inevitably coming if something isn't done about it was the allowance of the spread bore motors.
And the notion that the COST of shocks is what is driving overall costs up is derived from people that can't do math very well.
A brand new set of shocks from Penske just like the ones on Bloomers car is going to cost you about $6000. And those shocks will last you as long as you keep it out of the fence with relatively minimal maintenance cost (about $500 to freshen them up every 10 nights or so).
Go buy a new Andy Durham motor for about $50,000 and be ready to spend $10K-$20K every 1000 laps or so to have it freshened.
Now tell me again how the cost of shocks is the major issue?

[ride height]

Shocks have become such a scapegoat that it's become funny to me. People seem to think you just bolt on some magic technology from Penske or whomever and you can all of the sudden hook up 900HP on a dry slick track. That's a myth that lives in the grandstands and on 4m but has no place in the reality of racing.
The beginning of the end that is inevitably coming if something isn't done about it was the allowance of the spread bore motors.
And the notion that the COST of shocks is what is driving overall costs up is derived from people that can't do math very well.
A brand new set of shocks from Penske just like the ones on Bloomers car is going to cost you about $6000. And those shocks will last you as long as you keep it out of the fence with relatively minimal maintenance cost (about $500 to freshen them up every 10 nights or so).
Go buy a new Andy Durham motor for about $50,000 and be ready to spend $10K-$20K every 1000 laps or so to have it freshened.
Now tell me again how the cost of shocks is the major issue?

We have a winner. Congrats on your victory. 👍

[MI Dirt Fan]

That's why you have to buy at least 3 or 4 motors. 1 each for the primary and back up. Then a actual backup and one to use when the other is sent back to be redone.

[riddle28]

i didnt say cost of shocks, i said shock technology. tire prep is as cheap as they come but its only 4 hoosiers touching the track. i can call penske and order my $6000 shocks, bolt em on and run pretty good for a couple weeks, then i need to make an adjustment at the track and ive got my smasher and dyno in the trailer, but i dont know what kind of low speed or high speed adjustments to make or whatever you wanna change. Now if i spent enough with the manufacturers to have them in my back pocket, like bronson, or had one on payroll like landers well that might change things. Scott was about to go on an absolute tear in 2014 when they banned his penskes. Folks can say what they want but Jays post is right, theres only a hand full of powerhouse teams on the tours nowadays and the gap from saturday night is growing