Jay D!ckens Facebook post - Good Read on cost.

[hardracer32]

I can't use the "Reply" feature for some reason only "Quick Reply" so I hope that ride height and Matt49 see this. And I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ so don't take it that way but I disagree with your assessment. Here's why...

The combination of shocks, set-ups that put the spoiler 5ft in the air, body rules that allow the cars to move that much, and the fact that you have to have expensive equipment and smart people to make all that work together are all factors that allow for those $40-50k engines to be useful. If you take away the traction, then you level the playing field. Guys could run less expensive(less powerful, cheaper to maintain) engines i.e. SPEC engines, or older 18 degree engines, hell, even Steel Head or Crate engines could be a viable option at some tracks under certain conditions. Then you would see people being able to run some of the older style chassis and still be competitive as well. It would open up the door for a lot of the people who gave up on racing all together or went to a different class to come back to SLM racing. And I just fail to see where that is a bad thing.

[hardracer32]

And just as a side note....since I'm in the stands more than in the pits these days, I've heard a lot of fans talking about how ugly the cars are now anyway. They look like they've been wrecked before they ever pull out on the track. Just reeling in the body rules and getting the right front wheel pulled back in some would make a pretty big difference. The cars just look stupid now. There's a million places that series, local tracks and promoters could start but they just need to do something. Pick one and run with it and be firm. And everybody work together. It really shouldn't be that hard.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I can't use the "Reply" feature for some reason only "Quick Reply" so I hope that ride height and Matt49 see this. And I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ so don't take it that way but I disagree with your assessment. Here's why...

The combination of shocks, set-ups that put the spoiler 5ft in the air, body rules that allow the cars to move that much, and the fact that you have to have expensive equipment and smart people to make all that work together are all factors that allow for those $40-50k engines to be useful. If you take away the traction, then you level the playing field. Guys could run less expensive(less powerful, cheaper to maintain) engines i.e. SPEC engines, or older 18 degree engines, hell, even Steel Head or Crate engines could be a viable option at some tracks under certain conditions. Then you would see people being able to run some of the older style chassis and still be competitive as well. It would open up the door for a lot of the people who gave up on racing all together or went to a different class to come back to SLM racing. And I just fail to see where that is a bad thing.

Smart will always go fast. You can hook up 900 hp because the bodies are way too wide and the center of the car is now a wedge car. You can run fast with afco silver series today.

[hardracer32]

MasterSbilt_Racer, I agree 100% about the bodies. They might as well be wedge cars, and fans don't give a rip about the plastic nose on the front of the car. Half the guys don't run any kind of MFG identity there anyways. Might as well just let them run actual wedge noses like they used to run in the early to mid 90's. That would actually be less downforce and help things. It would also make body costs cheaper. As far as smart ones going fast, yes that will always be the case but I still believe that reeling in the tech side of things would make it more accessible to people with realistic budgets. We're not trying to make Scott Bloomquist or Josh Richards LESS competitive. We're trying to make Joe the Plumber and Ricky Local Hotshoe MORE competitive by reducing the amount of resources required to do so. And I don't mean taking the class back to leaf springs and truck arm suspension. I just mean some common sense stuff that could be done to even the playing field.

[billetbirdcage]

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

MasterSbilt_Racer, I agree 100% about the bodies. They might as well be wedge cars, and fans don't give a rip about the plastic nose on the front of the car. Half the guys don't run any kind of MFG identity there anyways. Might as well just let them run actual wedge noses like they used to run in the early to mid 90's. That would actually be less downforce and help things. It would also make body costs cheaper. As far as smart ones going fast, yes that will always be the case but I still believe that reeling in the tech side of things would make it more accessible to people with realistic budgets. We're not trying to make Scott Bloomquist or Josh Richards LESS competitive. We're trying to make Joe the Plumber and Ricky Local Hotshoe MORE competitive by reducing the amount of resources required to do so. And I don't mean taking the class back to leaf springs and truck arm suspension. I just mean some common sense stuff that could be done to even the playing field.

You can't put the knowledge genie back in the bottle. These cars are complex. You have to know what you are doing. You would be much more effective in your quest to dumb down the cars by putting them back on leafs. Sprint cars have super crude suspension and are exciting. So, it could work.

[mcarter815]

You can't put the knowledge genie back in the bottle. These cars are complex. You have to know what you are doing. You would be much more effective in your quest to dumb down the cars by putting them back on leafs. Sprint cars have super crude suspension and are exciting. So, it could work.

Don't dumb them down too far. The sophistication of the suspension is what makes them interesting.

[Matt49]

Leave the suspension alone. The smaller you make that box, the more ACTUAL engineering you will need to get every ounce of speed out of it. NASCAR's cup series would be exhibit A.
We can keep the innovation in our sport AND keep costs from sky-rocketing like they are.

And back to the shock technology vs engine cost issue. Shock dyno and spring smasher are a one-time or once every 10-year expense and still cheaper than a refresh on an 800+HP motor that you'll need at least once or twice a year. Not to mention the $30K you spend on it up front. Engine cost (I'm talking TOTAL cost of ownership) over a season is easily over two thirds the cost of running a competitive super late model.
For most race teams on a budget, if you need tires you buy tires. If you need shocks repaired or tuned, you get it done. But if you hurt a motor or two, you're likely done for the season.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Leave the suspension alone. The smaller you make that box, the more ACTUAL engineering you will need to get every ounce of speed out of it. NASCAR's cup series would be exhibit A.
We can keep the innovation in our sport AND keep costs from sky-rocketing like they are.

And back to the shock technology vs engine cost issue. Shock dyno and spring smasher are a one-time or once every 10-year expense and still cheaper than a refresh on an 800+HP motor that you'll need at least once or twice a year. Not to mention the $30K you spend on it up front. Engine cost (I'm talking TOTAL cost of ownership) over a season is easily over two thirds the cost of running a competitive super late model.
For most race teams on a budget, if you need tires you buy tires. If you need shocks repaired or tuned, you get it done. But if you hurt a motor or two, you're likely done for the season.

The gains on a leaf package would be much smaller. I think it would honestly be a decent approach in general, but would make it boring for me. I feel like I would be selfish to say it wasn't a workable idea. Sprint cars are still the same animal as 30 years ago because they are stuck with such a basic concept.

[Josh Bayko]

Leave the suspension alone. The smaller you make that box, the more ACTUAL engineering you will need to get every ounce of speed out of it.

The Rumley rules pretty much proved this point.

[fastford]

Hardracer32 , please give us your definition of a spec class and how it differs from what you per-pose ? you can say BS all you want , but when the rules start to specify every thing you must run to be legal , then its SPEC to me . I to was able to compete with a spec engine 10 years ago , but the opens complained about the big spoiler and the weight break until they took it away , and i understand to an extent , guess its all according to what side of the fence your on . I dont have a proble with a spec class , not a crate class where you have to buy and run one engine , But after all , were talking about SUPER LATE MODELS and thats what they need to remain , dyeing or not.

[Kromulous]

USMTS is running a spec motor, how is it working out there?

I really dont know, seems to be doing ok.

[DGI]

USRA and USMTS have a spec head option. It’s a nice piece and makes good power. It seems to work. What if you did a version of that? Like a 15 degree spec head that you can’t touch. 430 cubic inch. Regular aluminum block. Any cam. Any stroke you want. You could still get 750 HP out of the motor at half the cost of the wide bore stuff. It would be a start I would think?

[DGI]

Every sanctioning body in racing has a motor rule with the exception of Super Lates. The motor cost is out of control in super racing. That’s why we are losing the local and regional stuff. That’s why guys are getting out or moving to other divisions of racing in my opinion.

[Josh Bayko]

USMTS is running a spec motor, how is it working out there?

I really dont know, seems to be doing ok.

It’s one of a few options they have. They have different weights and spoiler heights for the different options. Maybe that’s something that could be done is in super lates.