Straight Axle???

[hotshoe65s]

From someone who was in the dirt world and now works in NASCAR as an engineer, all that happens when you make rules to restrict or "save money" is that you make it harder and harder for people to gain an advantage. What then happens is you have to dig deeper and deeper engineering wise to find an advantage, and that costs more money. So instead of allowing the simple and cheap solutions to add speed they are forcing guys to find speed through more costly methods. Not to mention it becomes harder and harder to find those small advantages, so it keeps the little guy from figuring it out. Same thing that has happened in NASCAR and its why the same teams dominate every week.

[Morgs153]

hotshoe65s - You get the hitting the nail on the head award right there.

98-06 I worked as a tech in NASCAR. Our series ran 390 carbs on 9:1 engines. We had all those neat tools and go-no go gauges to check those carbs plus a box stock Holley we could could compare to. Why then at the time were some of those carbs costing teams $4500, and maybe more?

Well, they were buying technology from teams that ran BGN (now Xfinity) and those teams also ran 390cfm carbs at places like Daytona, where they also ran the plate. So, they had to get every little bit of air through that carb and still make the power they wanted, and still pass the tech test. Big time engineering and costs just trickled on down.

So, right there is a good example of how that "cost saving measure" in the form of a box stock Holley, race ready for your short track series, became a very expensive part - a part that many teams thought they needed just to be competitive and stay near the front runners.

I remember holding a conversation with a DLM driver after a show and he brought up to me that maybe the series he was running should consider going to a 390 carb. My reply, "NOOOOOOOOO." When I explained the above example in a bit more detail he reconsidered.

You were spot on in your comment.

[ZERO25]

From someone who was in the dirt world and now works in NASCAR as an engineer, all that happens when you make rules to restrict or "save money" is that you make it harder and harder for people to gain an advantage. What then happens is you have to dig deeper and deeper engineering wise to find an advantage, and that costs more money. So instead of allowing the simple and cheap solutions to add speed they are forcing guys to find speed through more costly methods. Not to mention it becomes harder and harder to find those small advantages, so it keeps the little guy from figuring it out. Same thing that has happened in NASCAR and its why the same teams dominate every week.

You get my vote for Czar of all racing! Spot on!

[EvelB7]

From someone who was in the dirt world and now works in NASCAR as an engineer, all that happens when you make rules to restrict or "save money" is that you make it harder and harder for people to gain an advantage. What then happens is you have to dig deeper and deeper engineering wise to find an advantage, and that costs more money. So instead of allowing the simple and cheap solutions to add speed they are forcing guys to find speed through more costly methods. Not to mention it becomes harder and harder to find those small advantages, so it keeps the little guy from figuring it out. Same thing that has happened in NASCAR and its why the same teams dominate every week.

I agree somewhat with hotshoe, but also know there are not many simple and cheap solutions in the end. Like it or not, money will always buy the better mousetrap and the cream will rise to the top. I do also believe we need to leave room for the guy to give it a shot on the floor of his garage, but can tell you open engine, body, and tire rules would have completely ran dirt late models out of existence years ago. Just because there is not a rule does not mean that a cheap, out of the box piece will be competitive.... The money will be spent to make it the best regardless, have also seen this on every level of the sport.

[PushinTheLimit]

So I've read through this, and my thought was it really necessary to create a rule against it? Just like all designs, they have their pros and cons. Independent suspensions and straight axles each have them. Unless it was something that was engineered by F1 type of dollars, I personally don't feel there should be rules against stuff like this. But this is just my opinion...

[Paradox28]

I'm not up on all the new chassis dynamics and tricks and gadgets..how could a straight axle be a help?

[XRACER1993]

I might be wrong, but wasn't there a 4 wheel drive dirt late model corvette d7, Jerry Inmon?.. and a mid-engine dirt late model, Charlie Swartz ? Way back in the 70's ?..What ever happend to them.... ?

[EvelB7]

I might be wrong, but wasn't there a 4 wheel drive dirt late model corvette d7, Jerry Inmon?.. and a mid-engine dirt late model, Charlie Swartz ? Way back in the 70's ?..What ever happend to them.... ?

Inmon said the 4wheel drive was the best pack car he ever had, just never worked well when racing! The mid-engine car brought in the engine setback rules.....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Bill Frye had a car with 3 or 4 wheel drive. Believe it was when he and Bloomer tussled.

[chopter33]

kinda be funny if someone trolled him just to get him to reveal what he is doing and it wont actually get banned

[billetbirdcage]

kinda be funny if someone trolled him just to get him to reveal what he is doing and it wont actually get banned

Not a troll job, there is always a possibility that the sanction body reverses their decision before it gets to print but I highly doubt that.

It's also not like the other top major teams, didn't already know about the axle at least as far was there was one under the car. They all knew months and months ago

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

hotshoe65s - You get the hitting the nail on the head award right there.

98-06 I worked as a tech in NASCAR. Our series ran 390 carbs on 9:1 engines. We had all those neat tools and go-no go gauges to check those carbs plus a box stock Holley we could could compare to. Why then at the time were some of those carbs costing teams $4500, and maybe more?

Well, they were buying technology from teams that ran BGN (now Xfinity) and those teams also ran 390cfm carbs at places like Daytona, where they also ran the plate. So, they had to get every little bit of air through that carb and still make the power they wanted, and still pass the tech test. Big time engineering and costs just trickled on down.

So, right there is a good example of how that "cost saving measure" in the form of a box stock Holley, race ready for your short track series, became a very expensive part - a part that many teams thought they needed just to be competitive and stay near the front runners.

I remember holding a conversation with a DLM driver after a show and he brought up to me that maybe the series he was running should consider going to a 390 carb. My reply, "NOOOOOOOOO." When I explained the above example in a bit more detail he reconsidered.

You were spot on in your comment.

A few here get it. You want to make cars cheaper? You use physics, not rules. If it has less grip, it's cheaper to compete. Now, what adds grip? Big tires and big aero loads.

[EvelB7]

A few here get it. You want to make cars cheaper? You use physics, not rules. If it has less grip, it's cheaper to compete. Now, what adds grip? Big tires and big aero loads.

Bingo... Less grip, more off throttle time, better racing. We may have got a little off topic but this is what the rules need to do; fixing the bodies and tires would be a way better start than trying to spec out suspension pieces.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Bingo... Less grip, more off throttle time, better racing. We may have got a little off topic but this is what the rules need to do; fixing the bodies and tires would be a way better start than trying to spec out suspension pieces.

I think the original topic has been beat to death. Most new rules are not about affordability. They are about protecting and promotion of vested interest. Otherwise, we would not have the bodies we have. We wouldn't have noses that are half as tall as the first "stock appearing noses". We wouldn't have flat roofs, tilted, with vortex generators.

Every once sacred body rule has been tossed since an aftermarket supplier has been available. Rome burns and Dirtcar and Lucas only cares what a very small number of people think. Often, those people have interests that oppose the health of the sport as a whole.

[PushinTheLimit]

I just wonder if the spoiler size changed from 8" tall to 4" how that would affect the racing? Less grip and that's probably the easiest thing to change on these cars. Would there even be a need for wide bore motors at that point? Sure you could have them, but may not be necessary. I'd like to see something like that that would make the number of super cars in all areas boom.