Are the Super's too expensive?

[Rajflyboy]

MasterSbilt = great post. By chance have you seen the new F1 cars with the mini fairings on the inside of the front wheels? I’m purely guessing that they are there because of exactly what you are saying (parasitic drag)

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

so the only way you can get extra load on a 2008 car is to add down force ??? I dont think so , maybe figuring out how to use these modern trick shocks on it could put force in a particular direction to get more traction where needed ..... either way , we will have to agree to disagree on this one MSR , and I have been doing this a good while my self......

Have you ever brought a car forward many years (body only) and put it directly back on the track? I have. It's quite eye opening. I've never owned a "trick shock". I've run some trick geometry that was pretty good. I understood exactly why it was too.

No, you can't add load without making it heavier or adding aero load. You can redistribute the load to a more even balance. You can also reduce load oscillations that shock tires loose.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Shocks, I started this using the word technology. How much tech has gone into shocks ? Ever look inside some trailers and see the shocks they carry.

The bodies today on a slm are all the same. These shapes, these noses, they all create downforce to the point of getting as much air to that rear spoiler as possible, and guess what ? That RF shock just pins that nose to the ground

I hate hearing the words come out of a drivers mouth when he says, we couldn't get in clean air or dirty air. That's nascrap talk, not slm. Remember the term, keep it simple stupid, slm has gone way beyond that.

[EvelB7]

Have driven Late Models since 1986 (although not as often over the last 10 years), Mastersbuilt is right-aero is the biggest key to unhooking these cars (not the only, but the most effective). If you want to create better racing, it is all about making more 'off throttle' time (which means less grip). More horsepower, less body, and less tire in my opinion will create the type of racing everyone seems to strive for. As horsepower cost money, best case scenario is take away body and tire....

[fastford]

Have you ever brought a car forward many years (body only) and put it directly back on the track? I have. It's quite eye opening. I've never owned a "trick shock". I've run some trick geometry that was pretty good. I understood exactly why it was too.

No, you can't add load without making it heavier or adding aero load. You can redistribute the load to a more even balance. You can also reduce load oscillations that shock tires loose.

no I have not , and hard for me to believe you have either , but I will make a bet with you , take an 08 car and suspension and a 22 car and suspension , take the body off and that 22 car will be faster , now with that said , I wish you were right , I wish a 08 body alone alone would fix the expense problem , but it want , and im not talking about static weight , I am talking about weight going to the most useful place in a dynamic state , but I,m done arguing with you , have a good day.....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

no I have not , and hard for me to believe you have either , but I will make a bet with you , take an 08 car and suspension and a 22 car and suspension , take the body off and that 22 car will be faster , now with that said , I wish you were right , I wish a 08 body alone alone would fix the expense problem , but it want , and im not talking about static weight , I am talking about weight going to the most useful place in a dynamic state , but I,m done arguing with you , have a good day.....

We race two old cars. We took an 03 with a body so narrow the left side tire was outside the body and made it as good as what a current Lucas guy has. I gained nearly a half second. That is fact.

Justadddirt did the work. It was quite a project. That car suddenly took off.

Air is huge. Drill 2 6" diameter holes in your filler panel and try to race.

Now, list the suspension changes from 2008 until now. From geometry standpoint, besides zero index, there isn't a whole lot on the back. Stuff been moved up front to gain ground clearance. That soft rf helps load up the rr on entry, but more than anything, it gets the deck and spoiler loaded up.

[fastford]

We race two old cars. We took an 03 with a body so narrow the left side tire was outside the body and made it as good as what a current Lucas guy has. I gained nearly a half second. That is fact.

Justadddirt did the work. It was quite a project. That car suddenly took off.

Air is huge. Drill 2 6" diameter holes in your filler panel and try to race.

Now, list the suspension changes from 2008 until now. From geometry standpoint, besides zero index, there isn't a whole lot on the back. Stuff been moved up front to gain ground clearance. That soft rf helps load up the rr on entry, but more than anything, it gets the deck and spoiler loaded up.

I dont have to list it , the ones that know , know , I was through with this thread but I think I know where your coming from , and your screen name tells it all , mastersbuilt has not won very much since before 08 so I understand .....now I,m through

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I dont have to list it , the ones that know , know , I was through with this thread but I think I know where your coming from , and your screen name tells it all , mastersbuilt has not won very much since before 08 so I understand .....now I,m through

I am in no way affiliated with mastersbilt, my cars no longer share much of any geometry with a current Crothersville product, and they work just fine. I've fixed plenty of them. Those that know, know, as you say. I've had the same username for 20+ years. Way to deflect from a fact-based discussion.

Wear a mask to keep the sand out of your lungs when your head is well below ground.

[King1]

I had a 2002 TNT car that was used mastersbilt stuff on the rear and black front rocket stuff on the front.

We hung a body on that car in 2004 that looked like a 2007 nascar cup car, and looked as close to todays dirt late models as possible with the noses that were available at the time.

The roof was slanted to the right, the deck was super low and level, the back was shifted to the right, the front deck bar was shifted to the left, the right door and quarter was caved in, and the nose off center.

The car won 116 races from 2002 to 2013 when we finally retired it. The car was a rocket ship and Im thoroughly convinced the body made the biggest difference.

We did it to look cool and discounted the positive effects it had. I had the most success by not cutting windows out in the sail panels.

[fastford]

I am in no way affiliated with mastersbilt, my cars no longer share much of any geometry with a current Crothersville product, and they work just fine. I've fixed plenty of them. Those that know, know, as you say. I've had the same username for 20+ years. Way to deflect from a fact-based discussion.

Wear a mask to keep the sand out of your lungs when your head is well below ground.

get your panties out of a wad , I was just going on with you , I have had the same and only name as well since the beginning in 99 , like I said , body alone will not reduce cost , I wish it would because I could build that 08 body myself a lot easier , I updated my older chassis my self , but a lot of people cant , so they have to spend upwards of 3 times as much today for a modern chassis that works with modern day set ups , the few of us that can do this work can avoid a lot of the expense however these very few can not control over all expense ....the title is " are supers to expensive? " the answer is yes , but unfortunately nothing said in this thread will reverse the trend .....

[oilman]

Anyone with any kind of experience with super or crate LM, modifieds, northeast modifieds or street stocks will tell you, yes, it absolutely IS the bodies.
As far as car counts, especially as far as Williams Grove is concerned, the other 500 pound gorilla in the room that nobody wants to talk about is that 1/2 -5/8 mile tracks are outdated and not sustainable for racing at this time. They were ok in 1978, but not now. The expenses involved are too high.

[play4kps]

The real thing nobody wants to talk about is the corporate sponsors of the 2 big series, dirt on dirt and several big name tracks. A lot of drivers in those series are comped those items to help them win, sounds harmless enough. But that's where the problems comes in, Joe local now has to buy these expensive items if he wants to compete with the other cars. Its really simple. everyone wants big media coverage, big traveling series. Sadly that has been the demise of our great sport.

[Josh Bayko]

Williams Grove has never done particularly well for car counts when they’ve had super lates. They’d get 20ish back before crate late models were even a thing.

[fastford]

The real thing nobody wants to talk about is the corporate sponsors of the 2 big series, dirt on dirt and several big name tracks. A lot of drivers in those series are comped those items to help them win, sounds harmless enough. But that's where the problems comes in, Joe local now has to buy these expensive items if he wants to compete with the other cars. Its really simple. everyone wants big media coverage, big traveling series. Sadly that has been the demise of our great sport.

you are exactly correct , that's really the problem in a nut shell

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The real thing nobody wants to talk about is the corporate sponsors of the 2 big series, dirt on dirt and several big name tracks. A lot of drivers in those series are comped those items to help them win, sounds harmless enough. But that's where the problems comes in, Joe local now has to buy these expensive items if he wants to compete with the other cars. Its really simple. everyone wants big media coverage, big traveling series. Sadly that has been the demise of our great sport.

I don't care what anyone spends on the class. I only care what it costs me to be competitive. If the car can only hook 700 hp, that's all I'm gonna buy. It served me well for decades, until the bodies got too big and my driver's racing flat footed like he's driving a crate.

It's too easy to say we got out spent. I'm way more analytical than that. We run the same lap times all night while the others drop a second. We go from a second slow to on point. Tony Stewart didn't do that. Series officials asleep at the wheel did.