Old picture of #28 Jimmy Mars early in his career ---------------- Thought I'd share.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Warrior really wanted me to go with a mono leaf, I wanted to stay with the four link. The coilovers where in front on both sides (on the birdcage) and the panhard bar went from the left side of the rear end to the right side frame mount (can't remember when the panhard moved to left). GRT was big on the four link as well, I believe they implemented the 'coil over behind' on the left rear first (before that we would clamp the left rear on the axle tube versus the birdcage to promote bite).

Skip Arp did the lr behind first. He was a GRT driver. By the winter, I think 98?, all new 4 links were built that way. The digressive nature made the cars hike up easier and go forward, but slowing down for the corner was a problem for years to come. That kept swing arm cars competitive for several more years. People still think there is some magic to the actual location of the coilover, but it's just wheel rate that made it work. We had a zink, with vastly different top and bottom bar lengths, but similar motion ratio, that worked exactly the same, back in those days.

[Patansplant]

If I could ask, what is wheel rate and what is zink?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

If I could ask, what is wheel rate and what is zink?

Wheel rate means force to move the tire with respect to the chassis a certain distance, instead of just looking at the spring rate.

Z link is like a swing arm, but coilover mounted on the birdcage. Typically, bottom bar goes forward from rear end, and top bar goes backwards from rear end, instead of both bars forward, like a 4 link.

[EvelB7]

My first car was a TCB with cantilever rear suspension (1986); in '87 went to a underslung Rayburn on a z-link. Never really got the TCB to go in the slick, Rayburn was a much better car until I destroyed it. Looking a wheel rates, the cantilever was a great idea, really allowed for fine tuning with the spring combinations and mounting points.Crazy all the combos we have seen over the years, remember the right rear coil over phase?

[EvelB7]

My first car was a TCB with cantilever rear suspension (1986); in '87 went to a underslung Rayburn on a z-link. Never really got the TCB to go in the slick, Rayburn was a much better car until I destroyed it. Looking a wheel rates, the cantilever was a great idea, really allowed for fine tuning with the spring combinations and mounting points.Crazy all the combos we have seen over the years, remember the double right rear coil over phase?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

My first car was a TCB with cantilever rear suspension (1986); in '87 went to a underslung Rayburn on a z-link. Never really got the TCB to go in the slick, Rayburn was a much better car until I destroyed it. Looking a wheel rates, the cantilever was a great idea, really allowed for fine tuning with the spring combinations and mounting points.Crazy all the combos we have seen over the years, remember the double right rear coil over phase?

Yes. I ran the double rr some.

[over4T]

EvelB7, Was your TCB one of the ones with the high mounted transverse leaf spring on the front end? Mark Welsh, one of the West's really talented drivers of that era, had one and said the same thing, that he struggled in the slick with it. Fortunately most of the tracks out here then were on the heavy side and he killed them for a couple of years with his Buggy. Very innovative cars.

[EvelB7]

EvelB7, Was your TCB one of the ones with the high mounted transverse leaf spring on the front end? Mark Welsh, one of the West's really talented drivers of that era, had one and said the same thing, that he struggled in the slick with it. Fortunately most of the tracks out here then were on the heavy side and he killed them for a couple of years with his Buggy. Very innovative cars.

No, mine was a conventional strut front end. It did have the bolt on clip-NASCAR thinks they invented it but old Gary Oliver beat them by almost 40 years! Car was very good in the wet, but the Iowa tracks we raced at didn't stay hooked up for long so it struggled come feature time. Always felt the thing was just to stiff and had way to narrow of a tuning range. Funny thing is I grew up not far from Tri City Buggy; when I moved south I was not far from where Gary moved and changed name to Tri County Buggy. He quit focusing on the dirt and did more with pavement in his mid and late years.

[billetbirdcage]

Crazy all the combos we have seen over the years, remember the double right rear coil over phase?

Hard for me to remember the exact amount but we won 5 or 6 MLRA races with the double RR and think one of them was the precursor to the silver dollar nationals when it was the "alphabet soup race" with MLRA, WDRL, NCRA, MARS, and ETC where it typically had 60 to 75 cars

[Henry Every]

The first car I ever worked on in 86' was a Frank McClendon creation(Custom Chassis) with reverse canti-lever, underslung both front and rear(like a sprint car) with 32" equal spaced frame rails, 2x2. We then tried one of his 3 link designs with a 34" spaced rails.

[jog49]

Ah, Skip Arp! Haven't heard his name in a long time. Great guy!