What is tire doping in dirt racing? Is there a chemical that can't be detected?

[HoosierDirtFan]

What is tire doping in dirt racing?

Is there a chemical that can't be detected?

[Henry Every]

Open Tire rules to me, make better sense. Every time they make any rule that removes any choice or severely limits choice people will seek an advantage. The problem is some people are honest and want to stay within the rules, while others think "cheating" and "innovation" are the same thing and will take whatever course they can find, legal or not. Combine that cheater mentality with someone who has resources and they will beat the rules, at least for a time. With an "Open Tire" there is less advantage to cheat if you can just purchase the right tire to begin with. As to whether there is a chemical that is undetectable I can't say, its conceivable. I ran karts for 10 years back in the 90's, tire soaking wasn't illegal yet so it was the wild west and every trailer was a chem lab of sorts. I did this for a while too before I discovered there was a tire maker with more choices. I made the choice to buy multiple compounds over playing with cancer causing agents any further. After that I ran better, more consistent and it really didn't cost me that much more to do it. You can only run 4 tires at a time anyway and some tire compounds won't be suitable at every track or every condition, so even with a little homework you can eliminate several tire choices from even making the trip. Now the rules are so tight, depending on series you end up wasting tire value because you can't even groove them to extend their life. Its like gun laws, some argue doing away with private gun ownership would lower the murder rate, but its a fact in the places that have done that people still get killed just as much. Take the UK you can't have a handgun, but people get stabbed to death just the same. Chicago has very strict firearms laws and that place is a shooting range. My point is criminals and cheaters don't care about laws, they do what they want to, so in my view its best to let everyone have access to the same weapons/tires to deter cheating and promote better competition.

[Clayton_Wetters]

Just ask Bobby. 🤘😎

[golddirt]

Yeah Clayton and so many others also like jimmy owens

[Clayton_Wetters]

Yeah Clayton and so many others also like jimmy owens

How's Tex doing? Tell him blackie said hello...✌️

[usac7]

Open Tire rules to me, make better sense. Every time they make any rule that removes any choice or severely limits choice people will seek an advantage. The problem is some people are honest and want to stay within the rules, while others think "cheating" and "innovation" are the same thing and will take whatever course they can find, legal or not. Combine that cheater mentality with someone who has resources and they will beat the rules, at least for a time. With an "Open Tire" there is less advantage to cheat if you can just purchase the right tire to begin with. As to whether there is a chemical that is undetectable I can't say, its conceivable. I ran karts for 10 years back in the 90's, tire soaking wasn't illegal yet so it was the wild west and every trailer was a chem lab of sorts. I did this for a while too before I discovered there was a tire maker with more choices. I made the choice to buy multiple compounds over playing with cancer causing agents any further. After that I ran better, more consistent and it really didn't cost me that much more to do it. You can only run 4 tires at a time anyway and some tire compounds won't be suitable at every track or every condition, so even with a little homework you can eliminate several tire choices from even making the trip. Now the rules are so tight, depending on series you end up wasting tire value because you can't even groove them to extend their life. Its like gun laws, some argue doing away with private gun ownership would lower the murder rate, but its a fact in the places that have done that people still get killed just as much. Take the UK you can't have a handgun, but people get stabbed to death just the same. Chicago has very strict firearms laws and that place is a shooting range. My point is criminals and cheaters don't care about laws, they do what they want to, so in my view its best to let everyone have access to the same weapons/tires to deter cheating and promote better competition.

Let me explain why "OPEN" tire rules suck.

This was about 20 years ago. We ran Dixie Rome and for the those tracks we ran the track DRS tires which were Hoosiers. This was about the time Mike Swims was very sick and Dixie shut down just after Labor Day. We won a lot of races and a couple track championships running Hoosier Tires.

Our car owner wanting to race into the fall went to Hoosier Tire South and bought sets of D03, D06, D11, D21, a few D28, D35, and some D45 and a D70 even to keep racing, almost $7,500 of tires for the last couple months of the year plus spring of the next year.

We went to NGA for the October race paying like $7500 to win. We qualified on the D03s and we were on the front row of the heat. But conversation in the pits was a D11 on the RR would only last about 3 laps, and by the end of the heat anyone running a D11 would be behind every car running the NEW RD12 tire. Since we did not have an RD12 we went to the Hoosier trailer with hundred dollar bills in hand to BUY a single RR RD12, and we were told point blank that RD12 tire were for Hoosier contract drivers ONLY. We even tried to go to a guy who hit the wall in qualifying and buy his RD12 and were told he had to give the tire back if he did not run the heat..

So we started the heat with what we had, 3 D03s and a D11 on the RR. And just as the word was spread, by the end of the 3rd lap we were running 2nd,a nd by the end of the 6th lap we were running 6th. Needless to say our "OPEN TIRE OPTIONS" had relegated us to a non transfer position.

I do have to say this, after this experience, people always wondered why we used lacquer thinner to remove the Hoosier white paint from the sidewalls of our tires.

[ftfiowa]

put every car on the hardest tire for RR.

[EvelB7]

Even the tire companies do not want open tires....Personally think what they are currently doing is working fairly well. Funny how after all the dust settles they are still testing has they have over the last few years. I am sure some things get by but I am also sure that goes for any rule they have (from droop to traction control and whatever else you can do for an advantage).

[riddle28]

Let me explain why "OPEN" tire rules suck.

This was about 20 years ago. We ran Dixie Rome and for the those tracks we ran the track DRS tires which were Hoosiers. This was about the time Mike Swims was very sick and Dixie shut down just after Labor Day. We won a lot of races and a couple track championships running Hoosier Tires.

Our car owner wanting to race into the fall went to Hoosier Tire South and bought sets of D03, D06, D11, D21, a few D28, D35, and some D45 and a D70 even to keep racing, almost $7,500 of tires for the last couple months of the year plus spring of the next year.

We went to NGA for the October race paying like $7500 to win. We qualified on the D03s and we were on the front row of the heat. But conversation in the pits was a D11 on the RR would only last about 3 laps, and by the end of the heat anyone running a D11 would be behind every car running the NEW RD12 tire. Since we did not have an RD12 we went to the Hoosier trailer with hundred dollar bills in hand to BUY a single RR RD12, and we were told point blank that RD12 tire were for Hoosier contract drivers ONLY. We even tried to go to a guy who hit the wall in qualifying and buy his RD12 and were told he had to give the tire back if he did not run the heat..

So we started the heat with what we had, 3 D03s and a D11 on the RR. And just as the word was spread, by the end of the 3rd lap we were running 2nd,a nd by the end of the 6th lap we were running 6th. Needless to say our "OPEN TIRE OPTIONS" had relegated us to a non transfer position.

I do have to say this, after this experience, people always wondered why we used lacquer thinner to remove the Hoosier white paint from the sidewalls of our tires.

gasp hoosier wouldnt do that

[Henry Every]

Let me explain why "OPEN" tire rules suck.

This was about 20 years ago. We ran Dixie Rome and for the those tracks we ran the track DRS tires which were Hoosiers. This was about the time Mike Swims was very sick and Dixie shut down just after Labor Day. We won a lot of races and a couple track championships running Hoosier Tires.

Our car owner wanting to race into the fall went to Hoosier Tire South and bought sets of D03, D06, D11, D21, a few D28, D35, and some D45 and a D70 even to keep racing, almost $7,500 of tires for the last couple months of the year plus spring of the next year.

We went to NGA for the October race paying like $7500 to win. We qualified on the D03s and we were on the front row of the heat. But conversation in the pits was a D11 on the RR would only last about 3 laps, and by the end of the heat anyone running a D11 would be behind every car running the NEW RD12 tire. Since we did not have an RD12 we went to the Hoosier trailer with hundred dollar bills in hand to BUY a single RR RD12, and we were told point blank that RD12 tire were for Hoosier contract drivers ONLY. We even tried to go to a guy who hit the wall in qualifying and buy his RD12 and were told he had to give the tire back if he did not run the heat..

So we started the heat with what we had, 3 D03s and a D11 on the RR. And just as the word was spread, by the end of the 3rd lap we were running 2nd,a nd by the end of the 6th lap we were running 6th. Needless to say our "OPEN TIRE OPTIONS" had relegated us to a non transfer position.

I do have to say this, after this experience, people always wondered why we used lacquer thinner to remove the Hoosier white paint from the sidewalls of our tires.

What you described isn't "Open Tire", if everybody doesn't have access to the same tires its NOT "Open", just the same as having required tires, but some soak the tires and run better. Open tire means equal access to the same compounds, not special treatment of a few.

[Henry Every]

Even the tire companies do not want open tires....Personally think what they are currently doing is working fairly well. Funny how after all the dust settles they are still testing has they have over the last few years. I am sure some things get by but I am also sure that goes for any rule they have (from droop to traction control and whatever else you can do for an advantage).

Of course they don't want open tires, it means less profits and less free market competition. Every company craves a monopoly, but consumers shouldn't.

[84wedge]

Since we did not have an RD12 we went to the Hoosier trailer with hundred dollar bills in hand to BUY a single RR RD12, and we were told point blank that RD12 tire were for Hoosier contract drivers ONLY.

That is so stupid it's a wonder it was even allowed to happen.

[Clayton_Wetters]

put every car on the hardest tire for RR.

And see less racing...

[Henry Every]

And see less racing...

Exactly my thoughts.

[usac7]

What you described isn't "Open Tire", if everybody doesn't have access to the same tires its NOT "Open", just the same as having required tires, but some soak the tires and run better. Open tire means equal access to the same compounds, not special treatment of a few.

Unfortunately that is not how the tracks and sanction groups defined open tire. As far as they are concerned the only rule for open tires was they had to fit the tire hoop showing it met the size restrictions for the tires being run. It was up to the racer to brin whatever tires you wanted to run. And the tracks were not concerned whether or not you could get the tires you wanted. Also if the tire company was required to bring enough tires in all compounds for all racers to get what they need you would be talking a lot of tires. Say you have 50 cars, and 8 compounds you are looking at them bringing 200 tires per compound or 1,600 tires. Wonder how many semi trailers it would take to haul that many tires.