Quality of current Late Model racing. How good is the racing & could it be better?

[Josh Bayko]

Oh, it’s this thread yet again.

[HoosierDirtFan]

Oh, it’s this thread yet again.

I was aiming for this thread to be about limiting engine size and with drivers and teams not allowed to have anything bigger then maybe a 420 / 430 ci and if it could work or not to help make the racing closer and not seeing select few drivers run off with the wins each week with also raining in the body rules a bit as well. Crap happens.

[chathamracefan]

Another 2 race Lucas weekend with zero lead cha he’s in the feature. Late models are in a worse place than ever imo. Especially on tracks bigger than 1/3 mile.

[Highside Hustler25]

Another 2 race Lucas weekend with zero lead cha he’s in the feature. Late models are in a worse place than ever imo. Especially on tracks bigger than 1/3 mile.

Being out front in clean air is huge but the racing from 2nd on back was pretty good.

[zyoung25]

Being out front in clean air is huge but the racing from 2nd on back was pretty good.

Lets just see if we can get 50 cars to show up and start them all. That way the leaders are in lapped traffic by lap 5.

[powerslide]

I was aiming for this thread to be about limiting engine size and with drivers and teams not allowed to have anything bigger then maybe a 420 / 430 ci and if it could work or not to help make the racing closer and not seeing select few drivers run off with the wins each week with also raining in the body rules a bit as well. Crap happens.

What usually happens in CI limited classes is the cubic dollars to find every last hp goes up. They start pushing the rpm more to squeeze more from the smaller CI. Same with restrictor plate racing. Never been fond of CI limits. A crank and pistons are pretty well the same cost whether it's a 4in bore or a 5in bore. Same thing with cranks with comparing apples to apples. custom crank is a custom crank

[chathamracefan]

Sprints have had a 410 ci limit for a long time. Different type of vehicle but it seems to work on that side. Although the aero on those hasn’t changed much over the years. That’s the bigger issue on the late model side.

[Morgs153]

Powerslide stated it very well and that was essentially what I was trying to state as well. You would just add an expensive complexity into the equation and a new engine building war.

Way back around 1980 the racing scene in Wisconsin was getting bad with engine costs. The cost of high RPM high compression 311s and 331s were killing it and those engines were grenades. At that time there were also big blocks around but the car weight was done on a pound per cubic inch formula. So the smaller expensive engines were the way to go to be light but they also didn't seem to last. The main weekly series was CWRA and they created the 9:1 engine rule (originally I believe with a 2 bbl). The father of that rule was the late Clem Droste, who I later worked for in the NASCAR Midwest Series. It was a great rule when it first came out. The low compression negated the need for all kinds of high dollar parts and high RPM and backyard engine builders were throwing together their own engines and having fun racing and the car counts returned. The rule worked so well that many asphalt series adopted the 9:1 engine in the years after.

Through the years the engine builders figured out how to continually get more and more out of those 9:1 engines. By the time I got into tech in the later 90s those 9:1 engines with 390 carbs were in the $30k-$40k range. They figured it out. They always do.

Aero sure seems to be the obvious problem. Go back a few posts and read that piece from the 90s on the UMP body rules. History doesn't always repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme.

[Josh Bayko]

Sprints have had a 410 ci limit for a long time. Different type of vehicle but it seems to work on that side. Although the aero on those hasn’t changed much over the years. That’s the bigger issue on the late model side.

I don’t know that it works. Winged 410 motors are like 70k these days.

[zyoung25]

I don’t know that it works. Winged 410 motors are like 70k these days.

How many laps do they get out of them before a refresh. We are getting upwards of a 1000+ out of an engine now. I wouldn't think a methanol engine would live that long?

[Highside Hustler25]

Lets just see if we can get 50 cars to show up and start them all. That way the leaders are in lapped traffic by lap 5.

Why not. Couldn't be any worse than what we currently have.

[foxfire2dirtracing]

Nothing to do with aero but get rid of any type signaling by the crews. Sticks, hands and every other means of communication with the driver while on the track.
NASCAR has spotters- we don’t need it.
Radios were banned many years ago - but teams are still telling the drivers where to be on the track.
Personally- just don’t care for it.
last night on the SAS replay on DOD- 3 teams had spotters on the front straightaway fence with the lighted sticks standing in ftont of ghe spectators.
Apparently it’s only a safety concern if you are a spectator?
Bob Pierce does this often.

[Highside Hustler25]

If I was a paying fan and had a crew member, stick man blocking my view on the front stretch, I'd shove them day glow sticks up his ..... Totally unacceptable.

[Josh Bayko]

How many laps do they get out of them before a refresh. We are getting upwards of a 1000+ out of an engine now. I wouldn't think a methanol engine would live that long?

Last I heard about 500 laps between rebuilds.