How do we Make local Short Track Racing Great Again (Dirt & Asphalt)?

[chathamracefan]

Winged sprints have a really good product right now and I think a lot to do with it is inverts.

Inverts are certainly part of it. I'd also say they aren't as "technical" as a dirt late model these days. Years ago a winged 410 probably was (or at least was more costly). But with all the aero on the late model side and the super technical shocks, springs, etc the late models have become a far far more predictable & less exciting product. Especially on the big tracks.

Winged sprint car aero has been virtually unchanged for a long time now so they kind of have figured it out. And it's mostly the same for everyone.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I think its easy to see that technology has hurt dirt late models the most at a regional level, while the top 2 touring series are hot, grass roots is dying or dead. It doesn't have to be that way. Look at winged sprint car racing, Full fields at plenty of tracks across the nation, excellent payouts compared to late models, Knoxville, Huset's, Skagit, plenty in California, Attica, Fremont, Sharon, Butler, Port Royal and all across Pa. Most of these tracks are paying 4-6 thousand to win weekly and a generous points fund at the end of the year. You will be lucky to find 10 tracks across the nation with a full field of late models every week, Attica, Oakshade, 3 or 4 in Michigan and Part Royal, That may be it, Illinois is losing tracks and none have full fields, the south has crates. Do we run a lesser late model rule package for weekly racing to stop the out of control spending, limit shock packages, somehow control wind tunnel testing and so on, I hate this but maybe a claimer rule to help enforce it. Just thoughts but the sport on a local level is on life support.

You don't need a "lesser late model". You need a lower down force late model.

[Tireguy17]

As far as racing goes in my area, which is MN and WI, the on-track product isn't worse in my opinion, but the biggest difference is car counts being down in most classes.

The biggest affect on weekly racing is that there are 4 major national tours, all of which hit this area multiple times a summer. In other areas it's more when you add in UMP, SAS, etc. Those races take more dollars to goto, and I feel are slowly killing weekly racing in many regions. Unless you have a connection to a weekly driver, there just isn't the buzz effect like going to a national event. And with less weekly cars racing at alot of tracks, that equates to less fans in the stands.

[chathamracefan]

You don't need a "lesser late model". You need a lower down force late model.

Nothing points it out like looking at the winners list for the Lucas & WoO races in recent years. Its 95% or more touring guys getting all the wins. And most of that consolidated among the top 3 or 4. Yes the top guys have always won the most but 10 plus years ago the regional/local guys won often enough to "keep em honest" especially in some of the hot bed areas. Jason Feger has 3 career Lucas Oil wins. He used to kill em at Paducah. He is one of my favorites but nowadays when the top series come around he is not a threat to win. Hasn't been for several years. Gets some top 10's but doesn't really threaten. I just use him as an example. He is one of the top "regional" guys in the country IMO & he really doesn't have a shot to win on the national tours any longer. Lots of other guys just like that.

[TheJet-09]

^^^ I always remember Gary Stuhler being that guy when they were out East, and maybe Ricky Weeks down at Cherokee.

[chathamracefan]

As I scan the Lucas Oil winners list I see names like Shanon Buckingham, Terry Phillips, Tim Dohm, Payton Looney, Randy Weaver (I was at that one), Justin Ratliff, Jason Jameson, etc.

Just picked a few names. I realize a couple of those may have been "on tour" when they won but are mostly regional guys. The thought of those guys winning these days seems so far fetched at best.

[WisWildManFan]

Nothing points it out like looking at the winners list for the Lucas & WoO races in recent years. Its 95% or more touring guys getting all the wins. And most of that consolidated among the top 3 or 4. Yes the top guys have always won the most but 10 plus years ago the regional/local guys won often enough to "keep em honest" especially in some of the hot bed areas. Jason Feger has 3 career Lucas Oil wins. He used to kill em at Paducah. He is one of my favorites but nowadays when the top series come around he is not a threat to win. Hasn't been for several years. Gets some top 10's but doesn't really threaten. I just use him as an example. He is one of the top "regional" guys in the country IMO & he really doesn't have a shot to win on the national tours any longer. Lots of other guys just like that.

It's wild watching a guy like Feger dominate MARS and SN's and not truly have a shot even on his home turf. I think the last true upset I can remember was Opie at Farmer City WoO race but that had to be 5 years ago or more now.

[LM1]

If you have the car counts the fans will follow. That being said racing is too expensive for the average blue collar guy or gal anymore. Also as previously said no more than 4-5 classes and the show has to be done by 10.

[Morgs153]

This is a post about how to make "local" short track racing better but it is in the best interest of the national tours to get their act together. National tours only bring 10-12 regular traveling teams to most places and depend on local and regional teams to fill the field. We as fans love to see some of our local favorites just make the feature or put on a good drive in the feature against the big dogs. We have accepted the fact that we will see the usual suspects in victory lane.

But if the local and regional teams can no longer afford to chase the next best thing in the world of technology and keeping up with the greatest, it will cost. It will cost in tracks dropping supers when car counts dwindle. It will cost in teams just giving up on the most expensive class and maybe scaling back. It will then cost the national tours in the quality of their show and their car counts when they come traveling to certain tracks. Then it will cost the fans when the tours maybe even give up on going to certain areas because they know even if the promoter wants to buy a show, it won't be much of a show.

So it would be in the best interest of the national tours to get their act together on this as well, unless they ultimately want to migrate to something that is totally unique and self contained (like some NASCAR tour series). But how does that future support two national tours down the road? They need to recognize where they are headed as well if they don't do some things to head this off in regards to costs.

[chathamracefan]

And you already see the impact. The car counts are smaller than ever for the Summernationals at places like Farmer City. That race used to draw 50 plus of the regions best plus locals and a few national guys. Friday night they had 27 cars. Basically a mars show. They have so few local guys any more to support the big shows when they come to town.

[3 wide]

And that's because they don't pay them anything you start paying them the will come.

[doyle hargraves]

And that's because they don't pay them anything you start paying them the will come.

I’m bot sure what they are supposed to pay them with. There’s never more than a hundred people in the stands for a regular show

[weatherman85]

One big issue when it comes to pay is that it's ALWAYS so top heavy regardless of the class. I would much rather see the purse more evenly spread vs a top heavy payout.

I hate to say it, but I don't know that it can ever be returned to its former glory. Car culture is and has been dying out leading to a lack of interest IMO. Used to, you would hop in your car and go to a friend's house to tinker on it or hit laps through town on any given week night. I remember in my younger days hitting the local car wash where dozens of others of my school classmates would be there with their trucks or street cars hanging out till the cops came and ran us off. In those days you personally knew most of the drivers at your local track as they were the blue collar working guys. Now, that is almost impossible due to the costs and complexity of what it takes to get in.

I jumped the fence from the stands and started racing a couple of years back now and it BLEW my mind how complex racing is and what it takes to be competitive and that is just in the 4-bangers. I know if fellow racers who have $30k in their cars just to chase $500 to win. Hell, a brand new set or our tires cost $620 and you're lucky to get 2-3 races out of them.

Years ago, you would see what was raced on the tracks on the streets going up and down the roads. It was easy to go to a junk yard, pick a car out and take it to the track in a few weeks. That's not so easy now outside of some FWD cars. Most of your manufactured new vehicles today are either trucks or SUVs unless we make some classes of those. Much harder to tinker with cars today as well due to how complex they are. We're basically driving computers on wheels. You almost always have to go to a dealer to have something fixed due to how complex they are which contributes to the decline of a car culture overall. Every few years we see a new class introduced (Crown Vics) to provide a cheap way in but being our own worst enemies, racers quickly blow that out. 602 late models were once cheap as well as FWD cars but no more.

[chathamracefan]

One big issue when it comes to pay is that it's ALWAYS so top heavy regardless of the class. I would much rather see the purse more evenly spread vs a top heavy payout.

I hate to say it, but I don't know that it can ever be returned to its former glory. Car culture is and has been dying out leading to a lack of interest IMO. Used to, you would hop in your car and go to a friend's house to tinker on it or hit laps through town on any given week night. I remember in my younger days hitting the local car wash where dozens of others of my school classmates would be there with their trucks or street cars hanging out till the cops came and ran us off. In those days you personally knew most of the drivers at your local track as they were the blue collar working guys. Now, that is almost impossible due to the costs and complexity of what it takes to get in.

I jumped the fence from the stands and started racing a couple of years back now and it BLEW my mind how complex racing is and what it takes to be competitive and that is just in the 4-bangers. I know if fellow racers who have $30k in their cars just to chase $500 to win. Hell, a brand new set or our tires cost $620 and you're lucky to get 2-3 races out of them.

Years ago, you would see what was raced on the tracks on the streets going up and down the roads. It was easy to go to a junk yard, pick a car out and take it to the track in a few weeks. That's not so easy now outside of some FWD cars. Most of your manufactured new vehicles today are either trucks or SUVs unless we make some classes of those. Much harder to tinker with cars today as well due to how complex they are. We're basically driving computers on wheels. You almost always have to go to a dealer to have something fixed due to how complex they are which contributes to the decline of a car culture overall. Every few years we see a new class introduced (Crown Vics) to provide a cheap way in but being our own worst enemies, racers quickly blow that out. 602 late models were once cheap as well as FWD cars but no more.

The thing is there are enough places where it still works really well even on the local level to make you think it still has hope. Heck look at Boone Iowa. They run the Supernationals in September and draw well over 1000 cars over the myriad classes. The top 2 classes of mods & stock cars draw over 300 per class. And even on their weekly shows the car counts are massive. 5 class shows with total count over 200 happens sometimes there.

Lots of things we have discussed in this thread. Eliminate qualifying at weekly shows, keep the action moving, mix up the format (inverts, draw/redraw, etc) to keep more drivers thinking they have a shot to win, try to keep the costs "sane", etc. It is done well in a few places still. Boone is an example. Several of the Iowa tracks draw well. FALS of course in IL does as well.

[EvelB7]

One big issue when it comes to pay is that it's ALWAYS so top heavy regardless of the class. I would much rather see the purse more evenly spread vs a top heavy payout.

I hate to say it, but I don't know that it can ever be returned to its former glory. Car culture is and has been dying out leading to a lack of interest IMO. Used to, you would hop in your car and go to a friend's house to tinker on it or hit laps through town on any given week night. I remember in my younger days hitting the local car wash where dozens of others of my school classmates would be there with their trucks or street cars hanging out till the cops came and ran us off. In those days you personally knew most of the drivers at your local track as they were the blue collar working guys. Now, that is almost impossible due to the costs and complexity of what it takes to get in.

I jumped the fence from the stands and started racing a couple of years back now and it BLEW my mind how complex racing is and what it takes to be competitive and that is just in the 4-bangers. I know if fellow racers who have $30k in their cars just to chase $500 to win. Hell, a brand new set or our tires cost $620 and you're lucky to get 2-3 races out of them.

Years ago, you would see what was raced on the tracks on the streets going up and down the roads. It was easy to go to a junk yard, pick a car out and take it to the track in a few weeks. That's not so easy now outside of some FWD cars. Most of your manufactured new vehicles today are either trucks or SUVs unless we make some classes of those. Much harder to tinker with cars today as well due to how complex they are. We're basically driving computers on wheels. You almost always have to go to a dealer to have something fixed due to how complex they are which contributes to the decline of a car culture overall. Every few years we see a new class introduced (Crown Vics) to provide a cheap way in but being our own worst enemies, racers quickly blow that out. 602 late models were once cheap as well as FWD cars but no more.

Completely agree, a wise promotor once told me 'there will be someone here to win the race, I am trying to see that I have someone to finish 20th'. Dolly Parton payoff structures only bring in a couple, get the start money and the mid pack money up and you will see more cars in the long run.