Florence results?

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Thanks for the clarification on what Billy was talking about. I’m ignorant on the rules and didn’t know if the lack of a spoiler had anything to do with the tire wear.

From what I read on the mod board, the late guys have that tire option too. They skip it because it's a pos. But the mods don't have as many choices.

[Ted's of Beverly Hills]

I'm pretty sure the rule he was referring to is UMP/Hoosier changing of the Mod A tire. We run UMP mods, the same as pretty much every track from here west and they dictate the rules. The new tire is falling apart and the old A isn't being made any more. No one is happy with the situation, but thats not a Florence only issue. Go read the 4m mod board about the tire. You can see people are mad everywhere.

As for car counts in general, the cost of these cars has reached a tipping point where the tire, shock, and motor guys are on the verge of putting this sport under. Car counts are going to continue to decline if something isn't done. Unfortunately, the people who have the power to do something about it, don't seem to be interested in fixing things. Not that I think that there are easy changes that could fix it, but the sport is in trouble and tough choices are going to need to be made soon.

Agreed. Costs are high. It's time to start thinking of ways to do things in a more cost effective manner.

[NormP]

Mr. King have you given any thought to only running lates twice a month or so and upping the purse to something like $2500-$3000 to make up for the weekends there's not a late model show?

[Clayton_Wetter]

Apparently many race tracks have decided that running weekly crates is the answer. First it was modified's and now it's Mods and Crates both taking away from LM car counts.

With this strategy it will get to the point of Lucas, WOO, and a handful of other racing associations cornering the market, and the race fans will see them a time or two locally and have to travel the country to see LM's at specials only.

On the other hand, why are promoters not uniting to set down cost cutting rules to help save the LM class.

Many LM drivers are showing that they would rather save money and race Crates or Mods for a pittance purse and not make a dime, than they would to try and keep up with the outrageous expense of racing a LM.

The ball is in the PROMOTERS hands to step up and do something. It appears UMP is in name only and are more concerned about the Hell Tour, than the reason that they were originally created.

The crowds are falling off quite a bit at regular shows as a result also.

[Gary]

"A" MAIN FINISH 30 LAP

1 21 ROBBY HENSLEY
2 84 BILL BLAIR, JR.
3 4 TRIPP GERRALD
4 33 JESSE LAY
5 18 ETHAN BURGESS
6 10 MIKE MEYERS
7 99 TOM COLLINI
8 98 MASON COMBS
9 7p GRAYLIN PRINCE
10 9b KEVIN BLAIR
11 OHIO 1 JOHN WHITNEY, JR.
12 18 STEVE LANDRUM

1st HEAT FINISH 10 LAP

1 OHIO 1 JOHN WHITNEY, JR.
2 18 ETHAN BURGESS
3 18 STEVE LANDRUM
4 4 TRIPP GERRALD
5 99 TOM COLLINI
6 9b KEVIN BLAIR

NR 7p GRAYLIN PRINCE

2nd HEAT FINISH 10 LAP

1 21 ROBBY HENSLEY
2 84 BILL BLAIR, JR.
3 10 MIKE MEYERS
4 33 JESSE LAY
5 98 MASON COMBS

NR 1c CHAD OBERSON

[JKing]

Mr. King have you given any thought to only running lates twice a month or so and upping the purse to something like $2500-$3000 to make up for the weekends there's not a late model show?

It is our belief that our current fan base would not support a show without Late Models as a headliner. While I do not have definitive proof other than one or two shows, we do have years of circumstantial proof from lower division specials and crowd counts. Our fan base balks at paying an increased gate for a mod special if there is not a LM special tied to it. I can only imagine how bad the crowds would be if we tried a show with no Late Models. To top that off, our overhead for running a show is rather high and depends on being able to get the gate prices we do. Dropping Late Models lowers the nightly purse, but it doesn't reduce staff costs, insurance, track prep costs, etc. So less crowd and less gate price is an almost certain recipe for losing money.

So if we can't do a LM-less show, that means to do your plan, we would have to run only a couple times a month, and only a dozen or so times a year. You risk losing your fan base and cars with that plan. A special event only schedule can work, but it is tricky.

Lastly, I'm not sure running a $3k twice a month is a good plan. At some point, that becomes a "regular show" and is no longer special. Its not going to draw a ton of cars or really many big names. When we've done $3k's we get largely the same field with maybe 5 regional or so level drivers added in to take the top money. So instead of your locals getting $1200 for winning and top 5 money, they end up with a few hundred $$ and running 5-10th. And since to pull that purse off, you have to raise the gates, and now you are doing it a couple times a month, you start burning out your regular fans as well. Not to mention, scheduling around all of the $5k+ races within racer driving distance would be a nightmare. End result, things would have to get worse around here for us to consider that plan seriously.



Clayton - Unfortunately, one track, or just a few tracks can't make a real change. It has to be from the top down. Just about everyone follows either Lucas, Woo, or UMP rules. To change off those rule sets, you risk alienating the drivers who already have money in parts that will no longer be legal. I agree that changes need to be made. Mods are already a lost cause IMO. While I don't think that crates is the answer, it appears to be the path that the sport is going. I don't think it goes far enough to be a financially viable option myself, but it is what it is.


</ramble>

[racer144]

Josh, we have thought about going to crates but are told that there are people cheating on the motors and we can't be competitive with a regular sealed crate motor. Any thoughts about that?

[Aluminium Block]

Clayton - Unfortunately, one track, or just a few tracks can't make a real change. It has to be from the top down. Just about everyone follows either Lucas, Woo, or UMP rules. To change off those rule sets, you risk alienating the drivers who already have money in parts that will no longer be legal. I agree that changes need to be made. Mods are already a lost cause IMO. While I don't think that crates is the answer, it appears to be the path that the sport is going. I don't think it goes far enough to be a financially viable option myself, but it is what it is.

Lucas, WoO etc have ruined the sport. Their wide-open rules cater to those with the most money, and the manufacturers that feed these series sponsorship money. They seem to have no concern I getting costs under control so weekly racing will thrive again. It seems like their plan is the elimination of weekly Super Late Models, then they will be the only place where fans can see the division. The tracks need to start applying pressure to these sanctions to get some cost-cutting rules in place. Without the tracks, these sanctions are worthless.

[swartzman]

Tim Dohm won 20 grand with a bone stock out the crate motor so tell that to someone else..

[Dante Toledo, OH]

The racers and car owners are their own worst enemies. Tracks and series can make 10 new rules tomorrow to save the racers/owners money, and the ones that have alot of money will start trying to buy their way around the rules one at a time. Its not just in dirt late models, its every form of motorsports, always been that way and will never change. As long as money buys speed, they will spend and spend.

[Ted's of Beverly Hills]

Agreed....

It is our belief that our current fan base would not support a show without Late Models as a headliner. While I do not have definitive proof other than one or two shows, we do have years of circumstantial proof from lower division specials and crowd counts. Our fan base balks at paying an increased gate for a mod special if there is not a LM special tied to it. I can only imagine how bad the crowds would be if we tried a show with no Late Models. To top that off, our overhead for running a show is rather high and depends on being able to get the gate prices we do. Dropping Late Models lowers the nightly purse, but it doesn't reduce staff costs, insurance, track prep costs, etc. So less crowd and less gate price is an almost certain recipe for losing money.

So if we can't do a LM-less show, that means to do your plan, we would have to run only a couple times a month, and only a dozen or so times a year. You risk losing your fan base and cars with that plan. A special event only schedule can work, but it is tricky.

Lastly, I'm not sure running a $3k twice a month is a good plan. At some point, that becomes a "regular show" and is no longer special. Its not going to draw a ton of cars or really many big names. When we've done $3k's we get largely the same field with maybe 5 regional or so level drivers added in to take the top money. So instead of your locals getting $1200 for winning and top 5 money, they end up with a few hundred $$ and running 5-10th. And since to pull that purse off, you have to raise the gates, and now you are doing it a couple times a month, you start burning out your regular fans as well. Not to mention, scheduling around all of the $5k+ races within racer driving distance would be a nightmare. End result, things would have to get worse around here for us to consider that plan seriously.



Clayton - Unfortunately, one track, or just a few tracks can't make a real change. It has to be from the top down. Just about everyone follows either Lucas, Woo, or UMP rules. To change off those rule sets, you risk alienating the drivers who already have money in parts that will no longer be legal. I agree that changes need to be made. Mods are already a lost cause IMO. While I don't think that crates is the answer, it appears to be the path that the sport is going. I don't think it goes far enough to be a financially viable option myself, but it is what it is.


</ramble>

Agreed with what you are saying, josh. Things aren't looking good for the near future. As a fan in his early 40s attenting your track since I was about 10, I'll tell you I'm not going to pay to see crates in place if late models. I'm way too spoiled for that. Lol....my idea was to run twice a month 2k late models and 1k mods, if you all can make money doing that. Then, have two fan appreciation nights a year with regular purses. And if course all your normal big late model shows. Just a thought for the future.

[Clayton_Wetter]

It is our belief that our current fan base would not support a show without Late Models as a headliner. While I do not have definitive proof other than one or two shows, we do have years of circumstantial proof from lower division specials and crowd counts. Our fan base balks at paying an increased gate for a mod special if there is not a LM special tied to it. I can only imagine how bad the crowds would be if we tried a show with no Late Models. To top that off, our overhead for running a show is rather high and depends on being able to get the gate prices we do. Dropping Late Models lowers the nightly purse, but it doesn't reduce staff costs, insurance, track prep costs, etc. So less crowd and less gate price is an almost certain recipe for losing money.

So if we can't do a LM-less show, that means to do your plan, we would have to run only a couple times a month, and only a dozen or so times a year. You risk losing your fan base and cars with that plan. A special event only schedule can work, but it is tricky.

Lastly, I'm not sure running a $3k twice a month is a good plan. At some point, that becomes a "regular show" and is no longer special. Its not going to draw a ton of cars or really many big names. When we've done $3k's we get largely the same field with maybe 5 regional or so level drivers added in to take the top money. So instead of your locals getting $1200 for winning and top 5 money, they end up with a few hundred $$ and running 5-10th. And since to pull that purse off, you have to raise the gates, and now you are doing it a couple times a month, you start burning out your regular fans as well. Not to mention, scheduling around all of the $5k+ races within racer driving distance would be a nightmare. End result, things would have to get worse around here for us to consider that plan seriously.



Clayton - Unfortunately, one track, or just a few tracks can't make a real change. It has to be from the top down. Just about everyone follows either Lucas, Woo, or UMP rules. To change off those rule sets, you risk alienating the drivers who already have money in parts that will no longer be legal. I agree that changes need to be made. Mods are already a lost cause IMO. While I don't think that crates is the answer, it appears to be the path that the sport is going. I don't think it goes far enough to be a financially viable option myself, but it is what it is.


</ramble>

You are right Josh. This whole deal of the high expense of LM's is actually under the control of the big racing associations whether intentional or not. As long as they are successful, it is impossible for promoters to get together on designing new rules to cut costs. They are all the more successful because they have cornered the market nationally. They draw the high dollar cars, their sponsors and the large crowds. The dirt tracks have to adjust their class choices as a result. They have far less power in changing the rules so that the costs of the cars could make it possible to improve cars counts. Making new rules to cut costs of LM's and eliminating/combining the Crate class all into one class is the best answer. I don't think the powers that be are even considering this. I have no way of knowing though, other than a slightly educated opinion. lol

[JKing]

Josh, we have thought about going to crates but are told that there are people cheating on the motors and we can't be competitive with a regular sealed crate motor. Any thoughts about that?

I can't speak for everywhere, but I know that last year here, the most dominant car for a good part of the season was a straight from GM motor that had never been unsealed. The motor that won both races this year, i am positive is legal. Keeping control of motors is important, but setups on these cars seem to be more influential than supers or mods.

[NormP]

Thanks for the detailed response Mr. King. I enjoy the track every time I come up from Lexington. I was just curious about thoughts on the "fewer shows/bigger purse" idea from someone who actually runs a top level track.