Milliken DQ'd 4/30 WoO

[MI Dirt Fan]

Either way regardless. I'm pretty sure they dont allow tire soaking anywhere.

[WisWildManFan]

WoO doesn't like outsiders winning.

[blncfn57]

The dudes at the lab say using any of the "Simple Green" type cleaners is a risk. As to how much or how long it takes to cause illegality is debatable. Unless you've done an hourly test in a lab to see how long it takes to become illegal this is all conjecture. I'm opposed to tire treating, but I'll concede innocent people can get caught in the trap. Did Milliken intentionally dope his tires, maybe. The press release didn't read like it was a case of gross treatment but more of a borderline situation. Whats done is done, no going back, I just think it doesnt make sense to attempt it with the big guys and everyone knows they test...

Several years back we use to soak our tires down in Simple Green when we washed the car. Not for softening purposes but I'd wager they were soaked with it for at least an hour before rinsing. Pull wheels and tires and spray with SG, let them sit while we'd clean the rest of car/trailer. Then rinse everything...



One of two reasons. One is it helps keep rubber from drying out and losing the natural oils in the rubber. The second is treating and trying to keep chemicals on tire surface longer so they don't evaporate as fast. One possibility is smart, the other is cheating.

Just so I understand..... They wrap tires to keep them from drying out and losing the natural oils, but they wash them with simple green which is a degreaser? Seems rather odd.

[a25rjr]

Just so I understand..... They wrap tires to keep them from drying out and losing the natural oils, but they wash them with simple green which is a degreaser? Seems rather odd.

Yep, we all did, until we realized what were doing. Most don't now, but Im sure some still do.

[Flathead]

Four pages on this topic and nobody has brought up the fact that these series don't never seem to throw out none of their regular competitors. This guy races with the WoO once a year gets thrown out. Two years ago Robert Baker was thrown out at wheatland after finishing second behind Bloomquist, Hunter Rasdon was thrown out of a Mississippi states race earlier and he doesn't run that series but a couple times a year. There's a few more but does anyone else see a pattern here.......

[a25rjr]

Four pages on this topic and nobody has brought up the fact that these series don't never seem to throw out none of their regular competitors. This guy races with the WoO once a year gets thrown out. Two years ago Robert Baker was thrown out at wheatland after finishing second behind Bloomquist, Hunter Rasdon was thrown out of a Mississippi states race earlier and he doesn't run that series but a couple times a year. There's a few more but does anyone else see a pattern here.......

Yeah.....they're buying their prep from the wrong person! lol

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

Four pages on this topic and nobody has brought up the fact that these series don't never seem to throw out none of their regular competitors. This guy races with the WoO once a year gets thrown out. Two years ago Robert Baker was thrown out at wheatland after finishing second behind Bloomquist, Hunter Rasdon was thrown out of a Mississippi states race earlier and he doesn't run that series but a couple times a year. There's a few more but does anyone else see a pattern here.......

Chris ferguson won both woo races last yr

[Flathead]

Sliding Sideways, I wasn't saying every guy that wins a race that isn't a regular on a series was guilty. I was just saying it looks kinda fishy to me. This sport needs more local and regional racers winning and having good runs against that level of competition.

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

Sliding Sideways, I wasn't saying every guy that wins a race that isn't a regular on a series was guilty. I was just saying it looks kinda fishy to me. This sport needs more local and regional racers winning and having good runs against that level of competition.

Its all good I agree its nice to see locals win when the big dogs are in town.thats what I meant when i stated fergy did nothing against your post

[Highside Hustler25]

Four pages on this topic and nobody has brought up the fact that these series don't never seem to throw out none of their regular competitors. This guy races with the WoO once a year gets thrown out. Two years ago Robert Baker was thrown out at wheatland after finishing second behind Bloomquist, Hunter Rasdon was thrown out of a Mississippi states race earlier and he doesn't run that series but a couple times a year. There's a few more but does anyone else see a pattern here.......

Oh, they're s a pattern alright

[MI Dirt Fan]

Curtis Roberts won here in MI cleanly against WoO at I96 a couple yrs ago. He doesnt even race much at I96. Although that car he was in could probly run top 5 if not Top 3 weekly in WoO or LOLMS. Its owned by Finleys out of Lansing. They have deep pockets. Mostly run asphalt LM (Which I think they moved the operations to NC). The dirt car is hardly ever raced ( may not even own it anymore because its hardly ever seen at a track). Dona Marcoullier drove to a track championship at Oakshade 3-4 yrs ago. Dona had a 2013 very exact copy of the Rocket house car for sale end of last year. Not sure if it sold or not.

[Aces&Eights]

Just so I understand..... They wrap tires to keep them from drying out and losing the natural oils, but they wash them with simple green which is a degreaser? Seems rather odd.

Yes and no. There are multiple schools of thought on tires, I personally wouldn't use simple green or anything like it on "my own" tires, because it does pull the natural oils out of the tire, no doubt about it. If you've ever gotten it on your skin you know this. The tires I mentioned washing weren't mine, I was just following orders.

The initial problem with "new" tires is the release agent used at the factory to keep the tire from sticking to the mold. Some racers use the SG type cleaners in an effort to remove this release agent. Now if its a used tire that still has tread left, some use the SG to clean the dirt off the surface of the tire after racing. Leaving the dirt/clay on the surface of the tire would have the same effect as a mud mask on a woman's face, it draws the oils out. Like I stated earlier I wouldn't use SG on any of "my own" tires, ever. To me SG cleaners are bad news all the way around for tire performance, but I've known racers who did this.

Second school of thought, "The Wrappers". What happens in this situation is you grind or buff the surface of the tire to remove the release agent and open up the surface of the tire for maximum performance. Once the tires are sufficiently buffed/ground you wrap them up till race time so they are at their dead level best just before you hit the track. This way to me is the best "Legal" way to maximize your tires potential, but its a lot of work and why some still try to use SG cleaners instead.

Third school of thought, "The Cheaters" group, they take buffing/grinding/wrapping a step further and just before they wrap the tires they run them in a rotisserie to cheat up the tires with a chemical treatment. This can be done to achieve different results, either softening or strengthening the rubber. Once complete the wrapping keeps the treatment on the surface longer for enhanced results.

Now understand I'm not saying I think Milliken didn't cheat, he very well could have and it may be exactly why he was such a standout for so long, I dunno. I'm just saying there is room for the possibility. Now if they want to release the lab results and they demonstrate that it was gross treatment of the tires, then I say nail him to the wall.

[blncfn57]

Yes and no. There are multiple schools of thought on tires, I personally wouldn't use simple green or anything like it on "my own" tires, because it does pull the natural oils out of the tire, no doubt about it. If you've ever gotten it on your skin you know this. The tires I mentioned washing weren't mine, I was just following orders.

The initial problem with "new" tires is the release agent used at the factory to keep the tire from sticking to the mold. Some racers use the SG type cleaners in an effort to remove this release agent. Now if its a used tire that still has tread left, some use the SG to clean the dirt off the surface of the tire after racing. Leaving the dirt/clay on the surface of the tire would have the same effect as a mud mask on a woman's face, it draws the oils out. Like I stated earlier I wouldn't use SG on any of "my own" tires, ever. To me SG cleaners are bad news all the way around for tire performance, but I've known racers who did this.

Second school of thought, "The Wrappers". What happens in this situation is you grind or buff the surface of the tire to remove the release agent and open up the surface of the tire for maximum performance. Once the tires are sufficiently buffed/ground you wrap them up till race time so they are at their dead level best just before you hit the track. This way to me is the best "Legal" way to maximize your tires potential, but its a lot of work and why some still try to use SG cleaners instead.

Third school of thought, "The Cheaters" group, they take buffing/grinding/wrapping a step further and just before they wrap the tires they run them in a rotisserie to cheat up the tires with a chemical treatment. This can be done to achieve different results, either softening or strengthening the rubber. Once complete the wrapping keeps the treatment on the surface longer for enhanced results.

Now understand I'm not saying I think Milliken didn't cheat, he very well could have and it may be exactly why he was such a standout for so long, I dunno. I'm just saying there is room for the possibility. Now if they want to release the lab results and they demonstrate that it was gross treatment of the tires, then I say nail him to the wall.

I was kinda being a smart aleck. I had a guy I raced against use simple green and he could never understand why he was fastest when he had new, untouched tires on his car and then they slowly went away over the next few races.
I'm fairly certain that most the top guys have tires treated, it's just that they have connections that know how to do it without being caught. The "little guy" generally does not have the connections and uses chemicals that work, but get them caught.

[dirtdobber45]

How do labs test these samples? Do they use a spectrometer? Jus curious to see how and what they use to test

[blncfn57]

Four pages on this topic and nobody has brought up the fact that these series don't never seem to throw out none of their regular competitors. This guy races with the WoO once a year gets thrown out. Two years ago Robert Baker was thrown out at wheatland after finishing second behind Bloomquist, Hunter Rasdon was thrown out of a Mississippi states race earlier and he doesn't run that series but a couple times a year. There's a few more but does anyone else see a pattern here.......

as I stated in another reply, I'm fairly certain that most the top guys have treated tires, it's just that they have connections that know how to do it without being caught. The "little guy" generally does not have the connections and uses chemicals that work, but get them caught.