Milliken DQ'd 4/30 WoO

[toyracer]

I have to call BS on the epa thing but I do agree that is the excuse tracks are using.

I think it is the tire companies putting pressure on tracks to tire test or not get kick back from the tire company.

If it were an EPA worry there wouldn't be a Go Kart track open anywhere in the country.

The tire companies know if the local racer can buy a hard tire & treat them they can get a full season out of a couple sets of tires.

Just my opinion

[RCJ]

Do sanctioning bodys send known illegal tires to the lab to be tested,So they will know what chemicals to look for?I would hate to be DQ for baby powder.They should be doing their homework, if common shop supplies are getting guys DQ how about sharing that info.If the guys are cheating tires, own up to it and stop blaming it on simple green.

[Barbecueboy]

Do sanctioning bodys send known illegal tires to the lab to be tested,So they will know what chemicals to look for?I would hate to be DQ for baby powder.They should be doing their homework, if common shop supplies are getting guys DQ how about sharing that info.If the guys are cheating tires, own up to it and stop blaming it on simple green.

Another very fine post......

[W2Racing09]

What does WoO/WRG have to gain? One thing would be a series regular gets the prestige of finally winning a race and also gets the money. Another thing would be the perception that a local guy couldn't whip their best. Sure...Fergy beat the WoO guys in NC last year, but Milliken ain't Fergy, (No offense to Willie) he's a local guy. Outside of NC even people that follow the sport closely didn't know who he was.

Do I think there is some sort of conspiracy? Nope. My point is that some people could think WoO/WRG had something to gain. The bigger question is why people are so suspicious of WoO/WRG? Having a rule that denies non-members the right to appeal only gives conspiracy theorists more fuel to throw on the fire. If there is nothing to hide, why not allow him to appeal? If it's such a feel good story then I'd think they'd want to do everything in their power to give the guy a fair shake. What better way to shut up people that think WoO/WRG plays favorites towards their own than to allow an outside the same privileges as a member? If it's the cost of testing, let Milliken appeal if he is willing pay.

Maybe I'm outside the norm, but if it was me in WoO's shoes I would rather let a guilty party fail to prove their innocence than let my integrity be questioned.

I get the argument about the appeal process for sure. However from a business perspective there is one thing that needs to be considered. The benefits of being a UMP Member need to be worthwhile enough to make people want to register. If you don't receive any benefits beyond what a regular non registered driver gets then you will not register. The biggest way WRG benefits out of this mess is that I'm sure a lot more of these local guys will consider registering to get a right of appeal.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Do sanctioning bodys send known illegal tires to the lab to be tested,So they will know what chemicals to look for?I would hate to be DQ for baby powder.They should be doing their homework, if common shop supplies are getting guys DQ how about sharing that info.If the guys are cheating tires, own up to it and stop blaming it on simple green.

On the flip side, an older tire will not meet the benchmark because the peaks on the mass spectrometer readout will be lower for elements lost during aging. By the book, those tires don't meet benchmark either. Does common sense prevail in that case?

[Snake X3]

I get the argument about the appeal process for sure. However from a business perspective there is one thing that needs to be considered. The benefits of being a UMP Member need to be worthwhile enough to make people want to register. If you don't receive any benefits beyond what a regular non registered driver gets then you will not register. The biggest way WRG benefits out of this mess is that I'm sure a lot more of these local guys will consider registering to get a right of appeal.

Thanks,
Jeff.

I don't know, man. That sounds like negative reinforcement. An appeal shouldn't be a perk. It should be the right of any racer. Of course if thems the rules, the drivers don't have to race with them either.

I'll have to read the dang rules now.

[Barbecueboy]

On the flip side, an older tire will not meet the benchmark because the peaks on the mass spectrometer readout will be lower for elements lost during aging. By the book, those tires don't meet benchmark either. Does common sense prevail in that case?

It did in one instance that's been mentioned in this thread already.........after an appeal.

To make a guy follow the wrg rule book while racing with them but can't take advantage of the same rule book to appeal after the race is done is just crazy.

Now there is a rule that needs to be re written.......

[Snake X3]

To make a guy follow the wrg rule book while racing with them but can't take advantage of the same rule book to appeal after the race is done is just crazy.

That's a pretty solid point. You should represent Willie at the trial. LOL

[Barbecueboy]

That's a pretty solid point. You should represent Willie at the trial. LOL

Haha.........no trial needed.......he is guilty.......like the independent lab results said he was after 3 try's.

[tsand]

As someone how uses a spectrometer on a daily bases the peaks and valleys would look the same no matter how old a tire is as long as the chemical makeup is the same . The percentage of the chemical make change but the graph will still over lay. How I understand they are not looking for trace chemicals but significant changes in the graph. And for additional charge they can break down the components and identify any forigen chemicals.

[Barbecueboy]

And for an additional charge, lol............but wait, there's more.

I really understand how all this goes and the lab says he's guilty so he's guilty and all that, but if his Q tire is good.......his heat race tire is good.....his race tire is just a couple points short of concrete .its Fayetteville and one lane-ish that night.......and it's Willie ( I've turned a billion fast laps around FMS) Milliken and tonight is probably gonna be my night.

It just makes no sense, zero,nadda for him to want , need or have to cheat them up to win it......but lab says he's guilty......no appeal equals " suck it up"and move along.......hope he laps the field in a couple weeks just to give em the bird.

Guy has earned a little respect and gotten very patient in that super pretty quick...........a far cry from early modified days when he would sail it in there on the first lap and wipe out half the field......or at least the half our guy was in,lol.

I hope it pans out for them teamwise and they handle themselves accordingly as the wins come.......wouldn't hurt my feelings to see them roll into eldora on this current hot streak.......oh, wait.

[Krooser]

30+ years ago when tire softeners just hit the market some of us were BS'ing and the subject of the chemical make-up of these softeners came up... we all wondered what was in 'em. One of the guys wives told us she could find out in 20 mins.

This gal was a registered nurse. She got the phone number of one of the outfits making a softener (maybe Ball's?) and called the company. She said she was an ER nurse and they had a patient that had ingested some of their tire softener and she told them she needed the chemical make-up of product... BINGO! Hung up the phone and walked in the shop with the formula. Now we had could make a five gallon pail of the stuff for $10.00 instead of paying $30/quart.

This was before MSDS info was required.

[Snake X3]

30+ years ago when tire softeners just hit the market some of us were BS'ing and the subject of the chemical make-up of these softeners came up... we all wondered what was in 'em. One of the guys wives told us she could find out in 20 mins.

This gal was a registered nurse. She got the phone number of one of the outfits making a softener (maybe Ball's?) and called the company. She said she was an ER nurse and they had a patient that had ingested some of their tire softener and she told them she needed the chemical make-up of product... BINGO! Hung up the phone and walked in the shop with the formula. Now we had could make a five gallon pail of the stuff for $10.00 instead of paying $30/quart.

This was before MSDS info was required.

LOL! That story should be in a book.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

As someone how uses a spectrometer on a daily bases the peaks and valleys would look the same no matter how old a tire is as long as the chemical makeup is the same . The percentage of the chemical make change but the graph will still over lay. How I understand they are not looking for trace chemicals but significant changes in the graph. And for additional charge they can break down the components and identify any forigen chemicals.

If you add the right compounds, you are good then.