602 cooling lines question.

[dynoman14]

Dave,
Since I don't understand your cryptic response, I will let some of the other experts that obviously know more than me here help you out. All I know is what solves the heating problems associated with the SBC, not the semantics on how to say it right so you feel more comfortable.

BTW the small hole under the water pump opening is a pressure bypass hole in case of blockcage of the system so the hoses on your radiator and heater etc don't blow up everywhere.

GM recommends 6200rpm max on a 604 crate, How many people do you think follow that??? My engine customers stuff runs 6800-7000 and lives and nobody I know recommends that.

Do you really think GM recommended 50-100psi water systems to CUP teams??? It was the normal progression of learning to cool siamesed cylinder engines as well as high-output engines with minimal suface area to vent in cooling air. Especially when the 2 exhaust valves are together on the exhaust like almost all GM v-8 engines.

As far as Howard goes, he sold the water pump company to some guys in Michigan, buy a pump from them and you get a book on how to use it. Looks like your time might be better spent picking up a physics book and learning about the water molecule and how pressure affects molecular changes in water.

I sure don't need GM to explain to me that increasing pressure increased the BP of water and that once you increase the BP and Pressure you reduce the chances of air pockets getting in the cooling system. Why do you think cars now have closed systems with no radiator cap and a purge bottle on the fenderwell???

BTW, My calls to Howard are about family, fishing, stock trading and how things are going. Water pumps are the furtherest things from our discussions.

[DaveBauerSS6]

Dyno,,, I don't mean to be cryptic; My point is I listen/ read words said.
The statement " This might work" is completely different then " This will work". Some may see these as the same. I don't.
I have a lot of irons in the fire and I have no problem sourcing out my answers. And I in turn share what I know.
I understand racers will run the motors over the suggested limit by GM. The number was for a standard to gauge by. GM's intent is for these motors to live and racers to have a motor to race with. The bypass line is same. But you will not loose a race/ hurt the motor if the line is venting air. Over reving the motor will shorten the life. I feel this is worth understanding. I do know that the GM tech line answer for the line was to purge trapped air under the head. According to the physics book I read as pressure increases, all that will happen is the air "bubble " will compress; and without a passage will continue to live there, creating a hot spot. This high pressure system isn't reasonable in a crate type application. The nitrogen cooling system would be more reasonable then that.

Do you have any ideas as to who we should talk to? You seem to know a lot of people.


BTW,
"Why do you think cars now have closed systems with no radiator cap and a purge bottle on the fenderwell???"
My answer is that there are radiator caps on cars. They look a little different, made of plastic, no relief lever, seals with o ring on the side as opposed to a flat washer, and they all vent on over pressure to the ground. The radiator caps are mounted on a purge bottle to the fenderwell for the purpose of being higher then the motor. Here again the ability to purge air from the motor to a higher point. Try looking at a 97 Chevy Monte 3.1, plumbing everywhere, 2 vent screws all to get the air to the purge tank. The designers keep lowering the noses of the darn cars.
Thanks for you help, Dave

[Egoracing]

Are they running 50-100 psi systems on the restrictor plate tracks?

[DaveBauerSS6]

Good info on that video. Thanks. I'll try PRC on Monday for some more.

[stockcar5]

jeff have you tried the de-aeration kit? seems pretty simple. if so how do they work?

[dynoman14]

Ego,
NASCAR has come in and regulated pop off pressures to make the cars run hot. Have you not been watching the races for the last couple years.

NASCAR is regulating how teams cool engines to limit hooking 2 cars up for longer that a couple laps.

Those engines lose tons of HP once they get too hot. Problem is once they pop they go from 250* @ say 30psi to 350* at atmospheric. Once that happens you have to refill the system under pressure or the water will never build up the proper pressure once it has bypassed the original boiling point of 212*F.

That is why non-pressurized system cars that run hot always run hot. I always put a schrader valve on my thermostat housing and if needed the water system could be topped off and once closed off you jack the air pressure to about 25# and let it eat.

People always asked me why I put air in my radiator top radiator hose and I said I was setting the hose stagger so the thing would corner better.

[stockcar5]

oh yeah... fyi I talked to krc a few weeks ago about pro series serp pulleys, they are not harder or coated any different, they look different depending on the color mix that day I was told.

I was at the track with my hobbys and tried to move the fan on one and couldnt. It had double v belts. I can always turn mine easily so I called krc to see if the pro series would help.

Based on talking to them I switched to the 4.5 diameter pulleys as well as bought a idler from them. The larger diameter pulleys and the idler both give the belt more surface area on the pulleys. They said I shouldnt be able to move the fan until the motor moves to take up the chain slop... With it all installed now I cant move the fan period. I used the idler only to take up the belt slack so my ps pump is now fixed in position and I wont have to mess with it.

Just thought I would pass this on since I know your running the same pulleys and me and you told me the pro series were better.. jj

yep thats the same thing krc told me. larger puller=more surface area. they said all of their pulleys are hard coated. i noticed way less wear on my pulley this year and i hink i had to retighten my belt once or twice this year. not enough times to remember anyway.

[Egoracing]

Ego,
NASCAR has come in and regulated pop off pressures to make the cars run hot. Have you not been watching the races for the last couple years.

NASCAR is regulating how teams cool engines to limit hooking 2 cars up for longer that a couple laps.

Those engines lose tons of HP once they get too hot. Problem is once they pop they go from 250* @ say 30psi to 350* at atmospheric. Once that happens you have to refill the system under pressure or the water will never build up the proper pressure once it has bypassed the original boiling point of 212*F.

That is why non-pressurized system cars that run hot always run hot. I always put a schrader valve on my thermostat housing and if needed the water system could be topped off and once closed off you jack the air pressure to about 25# and let it eat.

People always asked me why I put air in my radiator top radiator hose and I said I was setting the hose stagger so the thing would corner better.

FYI the pop off valves are 25psi.

[brad hibbard]

The port is on the drivers side between the head and the thermo housing. Its a 3/8 pipe plug with a hole about 3/16 to 1/4 size behind it to the water jacket. You can see the port thru the thermo mount. Several guys that have bought new 602s say it is in the info that comes with the motor. We are looking for a copy. GM recommends it be plumbed to the lower hose area of the water pump?
Sorry about the vagueness of the question.
Thanks for any help.

OK --back to the original question
I sold a 602 today and pulled the factory supplied information from the crate----read it word for word and then letter for letter and never saw anything about cooling lines

If anyone can quote a certain GM bulliten or reference please do so---i would really like to see what they are talking about in there informational hand outs before I approach the engineers.

thanks
Brad

[DaveBauerSS6]

Have the manual that comes with a 602 purchase.

Quote.
Title: CT350 Circle Track Engine 19258602- specifications
Rev 19ja10
Part # 8896057
Page 2 of 33
Cylinder heads: Last paragraph - Any small block engine, regardless of year , that uses Vortec heads, will require an external coolant bypass line from the intake manifold to the 5/8" hose nipple on the water pump (passenger side). Suggested routing is from the 3/8 NPSF boss on intake manifold to the water pump.
End Quote.




Some guys read this and have the bypass and others don't. Will call GM hot line Tuesday and question the purpose and the placement.

This was off the manual that came with a 602 purchased here in Cali 30 days ago.

[brad hibbard]

Hmmmmmmm

not that all this really matters but it is one of them things that make ya wonder

the provided book that I have also has "cylinder head" section on page 2 but instead of page 2 of 33 it is page 2 of 27 and does not say 1 word about cooling lines or bypass water lines

I did notice that the front page has the old part number (88958602) instead of the new number (19258602)---this engine is definatly the new style ---so I wonder if they changed the literature but this particular engine just didn't get the updated paperwork.

I am going to test this a bit just out of curiosity-------things can always be better ---and GM is a little smarter than most give them credit for

thanks for the reply Dave-----if you would, take a look at the front cover and see what the part # is for the engine (at top) and the book (at bottom) --I would appreciate it

my book part # is 88960547E2

Brad

[DaveBauerSS6]

my part number is 88960547 for the book.
Engine number at the top is 19258602.

[brad hibbard]

OK---so that is something that they changed in the literature

interesting

thanks Dave I appreciate the feedback

Brad

[DaveBauerSS6]

Brad... are you following up on this more??