open or crate?

[steveshawjr]

our track is alowing the 604 crate in our limited lates.

limited lates 3000lbs, 370cid ma,x votec 906 heads, any i-beam rod, any flat top piston, light weight cranks, vacume pumps, solid cams .500 lift, 4412 2bbl carbs must past no go gauge (box stock), 4bbl intake dule plain no air gap., roller rockers, 2.02 &1.90 valves top guys avrage 400-450hp, hei dist no msd

or
604 crate , no mods, hei, no msd, no vacume pumps, can run soft touch, 4412,
2700lbs


what do you think would be the way to go

[dirty white boy]

id think the 604 an weight brake will be best....but more knowledgeable people will post to im sure

[00BusDriver]

Track size and racing surface would need to be considered also.

BusDriver

[zeke23z]

3000# dang

[zeke23z]

what about these rules,sorry not trying to hijack your post

ULMA Engine Option 1a: "Wet Sump Systems Only," NO dry-sump oiling systems. Oil pump must be stock-type pump and in stock location. No external oil pumps allowed. No external oil tanks allowed. Oil accumulator okay but must have only one line. Engine oil cooler okay but must have lines running to the block only. No oil lines in or out of the oil pan. ALL blocks must be steel blocks. ALL heads must be steel heads, NO Aluminum Heads Allowed. ALL heads must be stock valve angle (23 degree for Chevrolet), (20 degree for Ford), (18 degree for Dodge). One half (1/2) degree valve angle tolerance (for gauge accuracy only), angle milling not allowed. Valve angle can and will be checked on any of the 16 valves, any one valve angle found not within tolerance will result in disqualification! Any car checking outside the tolerance will be disqualified. Any car found with this rule infraction must go thru a pre-tech inspection before racing another event. Roller cams allowed. Car and driver must weigh 2,350 lbs after completion of race, no tolerance.
ULMA Engine Option 1b: Same as 1a except that Aluminum Heads are allowed. Stock valve angle will apply just as stated in option 1a. Car and driver must weigh 2,350 lbs after completion of race, no tolerance. Total of 50 lbs must be added 12” on center in front of the engine plate; 25 lbs on each upper frame tube. Weights will not exceed 12” in total length.
ULMA Engine Option 1c: Same as 1a and/or 1b except Dry-Sump Oiling System are allowed.
Car and driver must weigh 2,450 lbs after completion of race, no tolerance. If using aluminum heads, a total of 50 lbs must be added 12” on center in front of the engine plate; 25 lbs on each upper frame tube. Weights not to exceed 12” in total length

604 2250# with 50# of lead up front same as above,Also allow IMCA spec motors 2450# with dry sump

[steveshawjr]

they say its a small 3/8 more like a 1/3rd in racing line, track is hard to judge , one night can be heavy smoth and fast , next heavy and rough, than slick and rough, than slick and smoth , now when i say slick our track when it go slick is just at the point at the end of the night it just starts to take on some rubber..


and when i say heavy i mean its heavy most guys wish they could race on a track like this it can be bad fast ..

banking a few years ago the old owner took out a bunch off the top actuly wrecked the track but when its only less than 5 mins to tow from home to the track and the next closes place dont run the class and is 2.5 hr tow its worth it to stay home.


it was a 18drg progresive track now its around 12-14 in the middel or about 8-10 on the botom.

well they call are class sport stocks actuly there stock clip lates 10 years ago they where street stocks lol . 3000#, stock clip, tube car, with 3link rear, grand nash rears, 10 steel wheels with lm 20 tires, lightend 3 speed sticks with a 15lb flywheel weight rule (open or crate)

our super late model class is dying and there trying to get some crates at the track. soon enough the supers will be gone and we will fill in our car counts have gone up and down due to very vage rules and some just stupid rules, but nobody likes the crate idea.

where the team every one see something they have to do it. my dad is 2 a-mains away from 100 and cant belive the cost guys spend on there stuff where lucky to have hafe the engine of what the other guys have.. had one guy sit out 6 weeks as he was waiting for his pistons to be made after he blew up his motor 3 weeks into last season. some guys just have more money than brains and every tack has this ..

we are realy looking at the crate because if you look at the parts in it well there just plain better than what we can run now and if we can go out and show them up with a $5000 crate when that guy whines his $20000 450hp 2bbl modified motor just got beat


this is what we run now and eather win or have something stupid happen ( flats, wreck failure of some sort

stock gm crank , recondition rods with good bolts, $17 4 brow relife felderal mogul pistons , comp cam to the rules , vortec heads big valves , preformer intake , holley 4412 with a 8.5 power valve , and the off road needle and seat and just work with jetting, 94 octain pump gas its an honest 350hp engine on the cheep and we beat them week in and week out with it 2010 most checkerd flags ..


but anyways nough ramblen i could bench race all night lol.


anyone who has some advice on what we should do crate seems like the parts it has is just better than even what some of the guys spending 20+G on theres

[tubetwister]

I like the crate motor, especially with the weight break. Never run one with the 4412 though, always the 650 4bbl as recommended by GM. In this config, several of these motors I seen dynoed were all right at 405 hp with 92 oct pump gas (this is with a experienced engine builder pullin the knob on the gyno, not some made up computer program, Real numbers!)
One draw back I saw back on the East Coast on both the dirt & pavement 604 motors, were some of the guys were starting to "masage" the motors, and I think this needs to be stopped right away. But I have seen some really good racin with the crates, but is amazing, the cream still rises to the top, the guys who can dial in their chassis to the crate motor, and a good driver, still wins. BUT, instead of having 2 or 3 guys running up front, you might get 8-10 slicin an dicin!
300 lbs is a big weight break, 20 years ago, NASCAR was trying to get in V6's we were running a compression V6 with a 600 carb. with only a 50 lb weight break, against 358 9-1 with a 390 4bbl, and very competitve. Only draw back if you got the rpms down, you'd get spanked off the corner until you got er goin again.
If it were me, I would go with the Crate, make sure you can keep your weight advantage (dont let the car gain weight, keep it on a diet) make sure she will roll thru the corner with minimal rpm drop, and I think you will beat the other motors, especially if you run a dry-slick track.
Drawbacks to the crates, big harmonic balancer (ext balance motor) can get in the way of rack if the motor is up front, and the valve springs seem to be the weakest link, with many guys now replacing them after 4-5 races, but they are pretty cheap, and easy to change. Some places will allow you to change balancer, even rockers (if you use the same Chevy rocker, the motor loves the 1.6 rockers on the intake, leave the 1.5 on the ex.)
I think the crates are a good thing for racing, a very stable motor, the tracks need to police hanky-panky and keep respectable shops for freshening them. Heck even seen some crates running against BIG motors, both on dirt and pavement and they held their own.Saw a crate win a big dirt show 2 years ago, against some all alum 410's (guy was flyin in the corners, big motors couldnt touch him!).
I had given thought to allowing them at our track this year in the dirt Mods, and making them ineligable to be claimed, some guys were wigged out about that, and I took the easy way out, went BACK to IMCA sanction.
Remember the weight break,its big, plus crate motor has alum heads, help keep weight off the front end, especially off the RF.
My 2 cents