Starting Crates 602/604?

[TReed44]

All of the tracks in Delaware only allow 602 motors.

[Krooser]

The only way you'll know if it's 'too big' is if you do it…

I went from junkyard dirt sportsman cars to a 427 in an ex-USAC late model in one week.

I think you are wasting $$$ buying a 602. You'll be at least 50 HP down from the rest of the pack not even counting the "cheated up" motors. Running in the back of the pack does little to hone your skills. You need to, at least, be competitive in your heat races to learn the ins and outs. Hooking up with an experienced crew would help immensely.

I'd start talking to the local racers every week. Be a part of the scene… let them know you are interested in starting to race again. Ask to be part of a good team… you will learn the most that way. Then you can make an educated move after you see what works and what doesn't.

I met a young kid this year that has a pavement LLM. I asked where he has been racing… he said they have just been 'testing'… huh? His dad bought a tractor/trailer stacker… then bought a race car. They have been 'testing' for two years… he 'may' try to race this year if the 'testing' goes OK. WTF? Just go do it...

[MM90]

The NASCAR tracks here run 602, 604, and steel head engines together. And the 602's are very competitive against the other engines. Not sure how much your rules differ from ours, but I wouldn't totally discount the 602 yet.

[W2Racing09]

I jumped straight into Crate Late Models coming from asphalt road racing in a C5 Corvette. It's been quite a learning curve, but I've had good solid help along the way. I've raced five times now and getting close to being a top 5 car at my local track with a 604 crate but they allow steelheads in our class... no crate only class at my track. Luckily, there are a couple of tracks that run crates only and I plan to run with them some this year. Also, NeSmith runs at a couple tracks not too far away and I plan to hit a couple of those races this year and see how I fare.

I spent a little more than I planned in my budget, but I bought an 06 Rocket blue with a Hendren 604 and couldn't be happier. I would like to get the newest updates on it this winter, but otherwise... it's been a good starter car for me.

Something else to consider, taking the Dale McDowell dirt school this fall just to see if dirt late models is how you want to go. It's well worth the time and money and they have cars that you can drive if you don't have your own. I went that route before I bought mine and the school was a huge help for me.

Thank you for your posts, this is just what I was looking to hear. I'm glad it wasn't too much of a jump. I'm sure having experience dealing with V8 RWD power is more useful than my asphalt mini stock experience but the decision making aspect of things is something that carries over from any type of racing I think.

I'm fairly open minded on what type of equipment I end up with, I have a few rules (Nothing older than '02, no copies, etc.) but I know how to do work and am more than willing to get new equipment over time too. I just want to get out on the track because I know I can learn more there than I can sitting here on a forum typing away.

I'm definitely considering the driving school. I was thinking of signing myself and my father up. (Just day one for him).

Thanks again for your post!

[W2Racing09]

All of the tracks in Delaware only allow 602 motors.

That is definitely useful information, I had assumed they had similar rules to the RUSH crates since cars come over to MD sometimes. Definitely glad to hear about the 602s only. Georgetown would likely be a much better drive from Hampstead, MD than Potomac would on a Friday night too. Probably an easier track to learn on too.

[W2Racing09]

The only way you'll know if it's 'too big' is if you do it…

I went from junkyard dirt sportsman cars to a 427 in an ex-USAC late model in one week.

I think you are wasting $$$ buying a 602. You'll be at least 50 HP down from the rest of the pack not even counting the "cheated up" motors. Running in the back of the pack does little to hone your skills. You need to, at least, be competitive in your heat races to learn the ins and outs. Hooking up with an experienced crew would help immensely.

I'd start talking to the local racers every week. Be a part of the scene… let them know you are interested in starting to race again. Ask to be part of a good team… you will learn the most that way. Then you can make an educated move after you see what works and what doesn't.

I met a young kid this year that has a pavement LLM. I asked where he has been racing… he said they have just been 'testing'… huh? His dad bought a tractor/trailer stacker… then bought a race car. They have been 'testing' for two years… he 'may' try to race this year if the 'testing' goes OK. WTF? Just go do it...

That is quite a jump, and good advice. It's true that you don't know until you try it. I've definitely communicated with a lot of drivers in the area. At this point since I moved to MD last year I've done a lot of travelling to check out many different tracks so I've not really settled on a home track yet. I guess it would help to attend the racing at the track I plan to race at. It's just so tempting to go to Hagerstown and watch SLMs since they get 30+ each week. I'll definitely try to get to Potomac more often though, and because of the above post I think a trip to Georgetown Speedway is in my immediate future.

I've seen people like that too -- there is a person posting on the local sprint car forums around here that has put his grandson in a 358 sprint car and is spending this season just testing at tracks. I think the best way to learn would be to race. Trail Way Speedway gets 8-12 358 Sprints per week, that seems like a great place to learn those cars. Much better than riding around in a test session at a track that does not even run 358 sprints.

[W2Racing09]

The NASCAR tracks here run 602, 604, and steel head engines together. And the 602's are very competitive against the other engines. Not sure how much your rules differ from ours, but I wouldn't totally discount the 602 yet.

That is what I was thinking, if these series and divisions make the 602 an option you would think that they would even the rules out. I see the 602 usually gets weight breaks, and different rules for the spoiler and all. I was wondering if those difference mitigate the HP differences.

[MM90]

http://i-80speedway.com/i80/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2014-Grand-National-Rules.pdf

Buddy of mine runs a 602 and has won and ended up second so far this season, never been out of the top 5 with these rules.

[lm98]

There are a lot of factors involved. How much do you weigh? The 602 is almost 70# heavier than a 604, making it very difficult to take advantage of the weight break that most series have. Can a 602 be competitive? Absolutely, if the track is not hammer down and you can both take advantage of the weight brake while still getting your weight balance correct on the car. A 602 won on the Go Nuclear Late Model Series last year, despite only a few cars (3 or 4) out of the field running them. A 602 also won at my local track. It can work.

I ran a 602 last year and had several top 5 finishes. I had a couple bad breaks that cost me victories as well (had to pull off while leading - and it wasn't a matter of track position, lap times confirmed that I was fastest car on track).

[115]

i run a 602 in the 355 econo lates at port any ? give me a call 5709854814

[W2Racing09]

i run a 602 in the 355 econo lates at port any ? give me a call 5709854814

Awesome, I'll have to make my way up to Port to check them out. They look like they are getting surprisingly good counts so far this season for a first year class.

I'll add you to contacts, my dad and I might head up to Port in a few weeks and check out the class. Will definitely give you a call when I'm up that way. Would be nice to talk to someone local.

Thanks again,
Jeff.

[W2Racing09]

There are a lot of factors involved. How much do you weigh? The 602 is almost 70# heavier than a 604, making it very difficult to take advantage of the weight break that most series have. Can a 602 be competitive? Absolutely, if the track is not hammer down and you can both take advantage of the weight brake while still getting your weight balance correct on the car. A 602 won on the Go Nuclear Late Model Series last year, despite only a few cars (3 or 4) out of the field running them. A 602 also won at my local track. It can work.

I ran a 602 last year and had several top 5 finishes. I had a couple bad breaks that cost me victories as well (had to pull off while leading - and it wasn't a matter of track position, lap times confirmed that I was fastest car on track).

There is something I hadn't thought of, I'm not light thats for sure. I'm usually right around the 240-260 range depending on whether I've been away on business recently. (Got to spend those Per-Diem dollars). Very good point. I guess you can only make a late model so light.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[W2Racing09]

http://i-80speedway.com/i80/wp-conte...onal-Rules.pdf

Buddy of mine runs a 602 and has won and ended up second so far this season, never been out of the top 5 with these rules.

Seems like a lot of people do have success with a 602. Not sure why everyone seems to think its not possible. It should be affordable to be competitive in some of the budget type classes like Crates are supposed to be.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Lt.Stryker]

W2Racing09 - You've received some good advice to this point. You can be competitive with a 602 in a field of stock 604s if your car is set up correctly and you're racing on a dry slick track. In FASTRAK the 602s only have to weigh 2150 lbs and you get an additional 25 lbs weight break for using a Han's (or similar) device where as the 604s must weight 2400 lbs. The 250 lbs delta between the two makes a big difference and affects your percentages and setup, but the challenge is to get you car that light to capitalize on the weight break advantage. You can also find turn key crate lates for under $10,000. There's a guy out here (Mid Atlantic Region) that's selling a turnkey Rocket with a 602 for $6,000. There's another guy in this region selling an 05 Warrior roller for $3500 and then you can pick up a low lap 604 from the classified section on here for $4,000. You've got options and easily stay within your budget. You just have to look around and don't buy the first car that you see based solely on price. Asphalt is very different from dirt track racing in technique and application. I echo the comments above and recommend that you spend the money to attend one of the driving schools. I also advocate attending a chassis school. There's a pretty steep learning curve both with the four bar setup and driving techniques in a crate late. You don't want to either put your car in the wall or get run over while you are learning the nuances to your car as either case makes racing untenable. There's a lot of bum gouge out there and there are individual drivers out there who will purposely give you bad advice so they can maintain their racetrack advantage... Learn to drive your car... Learn the nuances of your car... Learn how to setup your car... Learn how your car reacts to macro and micro adjustments and don't allow your focus to be on what everyone else is doing. Good luck, welcome to our sport, and keep the rubber side down.

[W2Racing09]

W2Racing09 - You've received some good advice to this point. You can be competitive with a 602 in a field of stock 604s if your car is set up correctly and you're racing on a dry slick track. In FASTRAK the 602s only have to weigh 2150 lbs and you get an additional 25 lbs weight break for using a Han's (or similar) device where as the 604s must weight 2400 lbs. The 250 lbs delta between the two makes a big difference and affects your percentages and setup, but the challenge is to get you car that light to capitalize on the weight break advantage. You can also find turn key crate lates for under $10,000. There's a guy out here (Mid Atlantic Region) that's selling a turnkey Rocket with a 602 for $6,000. There's another guy in this region selling an 05 Warrior roller for $3500 and then you can pick up a low lap 604 from the classified section on here for $4,000. You've got options and easily stay within your budget. You just have to look around and don't buy the first car that you see based solely on price. Asphalt is very different from dirt track racing in technique and application. I echo the comments above and recommend that you spend the money to attend one of the driving schools. I also advocate attending a chassis school. There's a pretty steep learning curve both with the four bar setup and driving techniques in a crate late. You don't want to either put your car in the wall or get run over while you are learning the nuances to your car as either case makes racing untenable. There's a lot of bum gouge out there and there are individual drivers out there who will purposely give you bad advice so they can maintain their racetrack advantage... Learn to drive your car... Learn the nuances of your car... Learn how to setup your car... Learn how your car reacts to macro and micro adjustments and don't allow your focus to be on what everyone else is doing. Good luck, welcome to our sport, and keep the rubber side down.

Yeah I know setting the car up is very different between asphalt and dirt. I think the first thing I need to do is learn a little bit more about them. I used to crew for an asphalt LM, but have never been around a Dirt LM. I would like to try to get an idea as to the main differences. I'll definitely be looking to go to chassis school, and the Dale McDowell school this fall/winter if possible. Would like to run a full season somewhere next season if possible, but also might be beneficial to run a few different tracks too.

Thanks,
Jeff.