Cost of running a crate late model

[Matt49]

It's a driver issue bud. Sorry to "brake" it to yuh. Get it, "brake" like maybe you're overdriving the open...

Well then you're about as funny as you are intelligent.

Based on most of your previous posts, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp.

[Kwoods25]

open motor will burn a tire up a lot faster, yes a driver can learn throttle control to help save tires. but when you can throttle up at anytime and spin tires over there gonna burn up faster. in crates we don't really burn a tire up unless the track is super dry, if the track is prepped right your tires will last a lot longer, and compound plays a big roll in this. if you run Hoosier FT200s they will burn up quick, like 1 or 2 races, Hoosier 1350s last a pretty long time, also American Racer 48s i believe i could run them all freakin year,

[Matt49]

I agree with you on tire compounds. But you take a crate motor and throw in an open on a dry track you better be doing the same times. If anything you'll be slower with the open because the window is a lot narrower when it comes to putting the power down smoothly. Matt49 I really think you need a reality check bud. Of course we would want an open motor on a tacked up track. We can put the power down but on a dry slicked up track you better believe the open motor won't be close to 800 HP. There are many ways to look at this but essentially we want to eliminate wheel spin. That simple. It causes heat and too much HP covers up handling issues if you don't have a driver that understands this then find another driver or have him learn this. Putting in a crate motor can really help dial your car in because the set up won't be masked by HP/wheel spin. But what would I know right. Spin your tires You top fuel dragsters 

The fact that you think putting a crate motor in a late model is going to help dial in the setup for an open in the same car demonstrates how clueless you are. They require very different setups and anybody that knows anything about late models knows that...apparently you don't.
You can take wheel spin COMPLETELY out of the topic because that isn't even what I'm talking about.
Let me explain some things to you...
Tire wear comes as a result of heat. Heat comes as a result of friction.
Friction comes with all of the forces that are placed on a tire in all direction and it doesn't have to be sliding to generate heat from friction.
Friction and slipping/spinning are OPPOSITES, not the same thing. More speed by definition requires more friction. Friction is the force that is ultimately KEEPING the tire on the track. The faster you accelerate, decelerate, or turn, the more friction you are going to have. These are the laws of physics. If you want to continue to argue with them, go right ahead.

It is physically IMPOSSIBLE to increase speed around a race track and not increase friction...whether you are spinning tires to do it or not is irrelevant.

[Matt49]

Dude, you need to check yourself. You started on this forum just a few months ago posting a bunch of questions that demonstrated your ignorance of a lot of very basic aspects of vehicle dynamics. Myself and others on this very thread even answered those question for you. This is perfect place for question so nobody takes offense even if it is something very basic. We all started somewhere. Anybody can go back and see all of your past posts in case you didn't know...so you're not fooling anybody. But just to recap for those who haven't been paying attention or don't feel like looking at your past posts:
You think stagger is a thing of the past and not needed today
You have had basic questions about what 4-bar angle and length changes do
You have had basic questions about air pressure in tires
You have had basic questions about how LR bite affects handling
You have had basic questions about the need for camber gain
You're completely in the dark on how modern RF shock/spring setups work
And you don't understand the existence of sprint cars...for some reason...
I could go on and on...

So you look like a complete jack@ss getting on here now and trying to tell me that I need data acquisition before I have "room to talk" about how friction and heat work and how they affect tire wear. Especially since 4 months ago you didn't know your d!ck from a drive shaft.

[Racer63]

You sir are a know it all then and don't understand the words "what do you think". That simple.

Dirtracer = Dynoman reincarnated? J/K Well maybe.

[Matt49]

You can call me whatever you want. It doesn't change the fundamental fact that open late models corner faster than crate late models and accelerate faster than crate late models. None of this could physically occur if it weren't for increased friction between the tires and the track. That's a scientific fact.
To put it in layman's terms, a tire that isn't wearing isn't working. Yes you can abuse a tire and wear it faster due to wasted energy (like wheel spin) but tire wear is the RESULT of friction and if there is no friction there is no grip. A tire that isn't wearing or never increases temp is not providing optimal grip. You need more grip to accelerate faster and turn faster. More grip means more friction. More friction means more tire wear. This really isn't rocket science. Tire wear is not a bad thing in racing. If your tires aren't wearing then you aren't using them for grip, you're just rolling on them. That's why tires that are too hard last so long...because they aren't working (friction) and therefore aren't wearing.
Call a tire manufacturer and tell them that you want to go faster on the same compound and not wear it as fast and let us know when the laughter subsides...I'll wait.

[Matt49]

I actually work for Michelin and various other tire companies. I'm quite experienced to say the least young grasshopper. Let me know what tires seal up and harden and the best operating temps and ill be impressed.  Btw you wouldn't happen to work in this industry would you?

Which Michelin office or plant do you work in?

[Matt49]

Wow...

Racer63 may have been right

[7uptruckracer]

I think so. I mean hell AR AND HOOSIER OFFER their best operating temps based on compound. My kid can find that and I don't even have one. I leave for one night and all this happens lol. It won't let me add to your Rep Matt49 but thats about the only way you can explain it. Oh and Hendren will cut down the 10" to 8" thats all we do no fancy rears to be bought.

[hpmaster]

Some days it's best to just sit on the sidelines

[Matt49]

I think so. I mean hell AR AND HOOSIER OFFER their best operating temps based on compound. My kid can find that and I don't even have one. I leave for one night and all this happens lol. It won't let me add to your Rep Matt49 but thats about the only way you can explain it. Oh and Hendren will cut down the 10" to 8" thats all we do no fancy rears to be bought.

That's interesting because our rules say "no 8" ring gears". Doesn't say anything about a 9" so I've jokingly said that we should just chuck it up in the lathe and turn it down to about 8.050 :-)
But I only have a 9" lathe so I couldn't do it myself but I was really always just joking when I mentioned it before. Now it has me thinking.
Are you getting any strange wear on the pinion with it essentially only being half engaged after shaving that inch off of the ring?

[7uptruckracer]

Sorry I'm to be excused its a 9" cutdown. No to the second

[drtrkr244]

With 20 plus years of dirt experience, I agree 100% with Matt. Also, I don't know about yall, but I've never seen a set of Michelins on a dirt car! A lot of people think asphalt concepts apply to dirt, but most don't!

[keeks]

I am very fairly new to the DLM world, but I have worked my way around them winged wonders for many a year. I just about jumped out of my seat when I read that a crate motor is a great way to dial in the car for the open motor. What? "Hey boys, we are gonna swap out the 410 for the 305 so we can get the car dialed in during this test day"! What?

[ask0329]

Back to the question on hand. I have raced IMCA mods for the last 4 years and my home track has dropped the class. Luckily two local tracks run crate late models. So I was fortunate enough to of been able to trade my IMCA mod for a 2003 Shaw late model. It wasnt complete but close. In looking for the parts to finish her off heres what i have found cost wise.

Bell housing - imca had to be basicaly stock steel. LM - can be anything. Of course magnesium reverse mount starter being the best. More $.
Starter/flywheel - this goes hand in hand with the above. they are more costly vs IMCA.
Driveshaft - Carbon Fiber seems to be the hot ticket at a cost of $579-$700 in a LM. In IMCA i believe i paid $125 new from speedway.
Calipers - IMCA was stock OEM. LM - wilwood seems to be what everyone is running. More money.
Shocks - IMCA steel no shrader valve no remotes. LM - how much money you got? guys are running shocks that cost more than a 602 engine. Not really but close.
Body - theres more of it, more aluminum, more cost when rebuilding. I believe i priced a nose and sides for $270.
Tranny - imca is limited to the more basic racing trannys. LM- ball splines and whatever else. more money.
Rear ends are a wash as QC's are now legal in IMCA plus a 9" is pricey regardless.
Tires IMCA was $96 a tire all for corners. LM I priced our tires at $185 each after tax.
Spindles havent priced them yet but I was picking up metric spindles for imca at $15 each.
Rotors i'm assuming are more costly.
springs i was paying about $40-50 new on imca. LM Springs ive seen are generally in the $60 range.

Please anyone feel free to correct me as i am new to the LM world. I've only had the car a couple of weeks and this is just in general what i've seen browsing online or catalogs.