Fuel monopoly

[collateralDamage]

SCD i definitely appreciate the input and honesty, interesting information. to clarify, when i said "$3.00 fuel...power-wise" yes i was referring to methanol, and it can be a significant advantage, regardless of burnoff, in the right circumstances when methanol is NOT legal (per RUSH rules). I would consider that to be FACT. if you are making gas work when everyone else is on alcohol, my hat is off to you.

$15 per gallon fuel is NOT dominating crate racing. the same way $8k (or whatever the number being thrown around is) shocks are NOT dominating crate racing - guys are winning on bilstein shocks AND bilstein shocks are NOT dominating which that in itself disproves the series' sales pitch. $10k "blueprinted" engines are NOT dominating crate racing.

the series wishes that every tom, sam and harry would buy a dirt late model roller, throw a crate motor in it and go racing. their rule making tendancies suggests that they can be competitive by doing simply that - buying the stuff and go win races....

i like to think that we ALL know better than that. sure, anyone can buy the equipment but it takes a lot of time, hard work, dedication and love for the sport to be successful in it. does there need to be a fuel rule?....perhaps? does there need to be a shock rule?.....perhaps? The immediate concern is that these potential issues are NOT being addressed properly and THAT needs to be heard loud and clear.

[billetbirdcage]

I'm gonna shoot from the hip here and posting this without spending to much pre-thought into this so there will be some issues but:

If your going to make a spec item, then something along the following needs to happen

1. It needs to be voted on somehow. Maybe something like each person that ran that series gets a vote for every race they attended last year.
2. Several manufacturers need to submit their product for the item in question with Cost of the part for the entire duration of the contract for the spec item. They can offer cash money to the series that doesn't have to be declared but could do so if they wished but I doubt the series will want that know.
3. Every year or 2 years, the spec item comes back up for bids. This competition will keep the price down to a reasonable level as a manufacturer doesn't get locked into a long term deal and continually raise prices.
4. Probably best to make it NO Deals given on the product, all are sold at retail/price quoted. This will stop guys from voting for products they get deals on, but will always cause an issue with a person that races that is a dealer for them. So may need some ideas on this to work that part out better.
5. Remember guys, to be heard you have to be ready to voice your opinion and actually do something about it, like NOT GOING TO THAT SERIES RACES as a protest. If enough of you guys will do that, you can get stuff changed but hard to get enough guys to do it.

I always said this should be done with spec tires but it never happens. Maybe it could never work like this but having bids done for the spec items and voted on by the racers that actually run the series would be ideal to keep cost in check to some degree on the spec item. Now granted this only works for consumable spec items like Fuel, tires and what not.

It might go like this at the vote for fuels

VP = XXX fuel at 4.25 a gal in barrels
Sunoco = XXX fuel at 4.00 a gal in barrels
BOBS Fuel = XXX fuel at 4.55 a gal in barrels
Johns Fuel XXX fuel at 3.25 a gal in barrels

Each may have a set amount they offer the series for cash money, but this really won't have an influence on the racers choice because you don't know what the series is keeping and how much they adding to the point fund. I guess if the series wanted to they could add what or how much of what they are getting to be added to the point fund, but this leaves room for lies or things that don't happen or to influence racers to vote for one vs the other. IMO it'd be best to leave this part out unless someone can think of a reason otherwise.

I'm sure if I though about my above post I could probably pick holes in parts of it, but again I just shot from the hip on this one quickly but gets the basic idea across

[profab00]

I stand by my earlier comment, drivers need representation at the decision making table along with promotors and series officials. Doesn't mean all drivers but an elected driver or drivers, we need a voice. It is our money being mandated where we are to spend it. I am not against any racing gas company's products, however, it's my money. That said, I guess we all could race UMP where as long as your blower doesn't stick outta the hood of your crate car you're legal

[W2Racing09]

Haha. If u run a series or sanction u make rules. I've raced where drivers got to vote. That's stupid and does not work racers will vote themselves out of being able to afford every class. We always want the latest greatest.

Where I used to run pavement and we voted. Street stock became sportsman. Sportsman became limited late model and 10 years later they started over those classes are gone and they have hobby stock and late mode only.

This post is on point, drivers don't realize what they do to themselves. Drivers can't have representation because they always want to push the limits. Very few people on here have ever agreed that costs need to be cut on anything, but get on here and talk about putting a rule in place to stop engineered suspension from making its way into dirt racing and everyone says it will kill the sport. What really kills the sport is when a new roller doubles in price over ten years. All because racers want to push the limits. As you said I've seen more "stock car" type classes killed by racers saying "We should allow X because it is safer, or it will save money" then that item became what you needed to compete and all of the big budget people went on to campaigning for the next new thing to add to the rules until the cars go from $2-$3k up to $6-$7k.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Mike Croley]

There are some very good points expressed in this thread. Fuel costs are always a concern for the racer, but there are race fuel costs, and then there are crazy race fuel costs. The oxygenated fuels are expensive, and maybe should be controlled or eliminated entirely. But some brands of oxy fuels are far less expensive and deliver the same or better power than the $15 per gallon fuel.
And there are some very good unleaded/ethanol free race fuels that are inexpensive but make good power.

[Mike Croley]

Regarding the idea of monopolies in racing, i've always thought it was a very bad idea. Racing should allow everyone to be involved. And that's especially true on the local racing scene. All local engine builders, machine shops, parts stores, and speed shops should have the ability to participate. Same goes for all manufacturers. Tires, race fuels, cams, oils......everyone should be able to participate. Then, you have 30 possible track, or series, or team sponsors. You have 30 possible billboard advertisers. You have 30 possible contingency sponsors. And you have numerous choices of companies and services.
Racing needs a lot more people and companies involved, not fewer. All it takes is good rules packages to keep the sport as inexpensive as possible while keeping competition as level as possible.

[RCJ]

Mike I have been using your fuel for years, Recently started using the oil.Will the semi-synthetic Withstand higher heat ranges better than the mineral? How long should you run the semi. vs the mineral.I've been running the mineral but as you can tell I'm hunting for any reason to run the semi.,lol

[DEKconsulting]

Quick question how many will be goin with the 91 by the drum or the 110?

[collateralDamage]

110 - simply for the hope of keeping temps lower.

[brad hibbard]

110 will have lower exhaust temps over 91 which is somewhat relatable to engine temps but what we are looking at is detonation issues

if the 91 detonates under load conditions it will naturally make heat and cut power

Brad

https://www.race-1.com

[Lizardracing]

Econ 101....Supply and demand.
When the demand goes up the price goes up. When the supply goes down the price goes up.
When the supply is high and the demand is down, the price goes down.
When the demand is high but the PRICE is set....the quality goes up.

If sanction really wanted to save the racers money they would legislate a price point and not the product.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

So you have ran Alky?

I ran alky for over a year, I know the facts.

14-16 gallons for 20 laps. 20-22 gallons a night on average for heat feature.

Gas 2-4 gallons. 5-6 in the whole evening. (oxy fuel)

Have run alcohol as much or more than gas.

around 10 gallons on a 1/4 mile. (25 laps)

around 15 gallons 1/2 mile (30 laps)

Switching to gas saved about half the volume burn off.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Your so bored you want to reply to a post from 3 months ago? Man move on you bore the heck out of me.

I just realized you asked the question. You didn't mean enough for me to keep track of it.

[Canadian]

Yep and it really kills us Canadians running that series, 1000 for a drum is what we r told....
Not good , they need to be more cautious with these jumps..

Plus Rush is talking about everyone MUST run a Bilstein shock soon, that will save us all money buy having to buy shocks and not be able to run what we already have.

What is next we all have to run the same spring on the right front.....this isn't nascar...don't let the box get so small no one will play in it !

[DEKconsulting]

I don't think she will go with the bolstering unless they r putting up a big chuck of change like Sunoco did. They will lose to many people if they switch shocks