Theory thread

[95shaw]

In light of recent questions on threads, seems like a worthy discussion.
No need to give secrets, just discussion.

I find by simply talking, I can learn a lot more than being told.
Thoughts?

[95shaw]

By the way,

Thanks to those who always contribute, without being condescending.
I'm sure I am not alone in this.

[Kromulous]

Headed to PRI Saturday, really interested in these position dependent shocks. Also i seen Bilstein is supposed to have some new SLM shocks really interested in seeing them as well. Along with very high compression LRs.

Theory stuff, what about Axles. I see a lot of the Strange Oval axles for sale, various sizes etc. Anyone care to share some experience with these?

Also i wonder what the Sanctioning bodies are going to do on the Rules for 2019, any big changes coming down?

[Krooser]

The guys I know say those Strange axles are great for lightening your wallet...

[billetbirdcage]

Headed to PRI Saturday, really interested in these position dependent shocks. Also i seen Bilstein is supposed to have some new SLM shocks really interested in seeing them as well. Along with very high compression LRs.

Theory stuff, what about Axles. I see a lot of the Strange Oval axles for sale, various sizes etc. Anyone care to share some experience with these?

Also i wonder what the Sanctioning bodies are going to do on the Rules for 2019, any big changes coming down?

It's been fairly quiet on any rules changes as far as Lucas or WoO, so I really don't expect any real changes coming.

Axles: I'll take a stab at this one. Now granted this is opinion and have some guys running different sized axles per recommendation of the chassis manufacturer but I haven't tested back to back actually changing them so. . . .

Now, I don't doubt you can slightly change the car in the middle with different axles sizes (wrap up of the axle) but I'm not buying what is said about them at least one part: More wrap (smaller diameter axle) adds forward drive.

1. If cushioning or allowing more wrap in the axle adds forward drive, then why doesn't a softer 5th coil add forward bite?

2. If that wrap up helps, then what happens when you hit a slick spot. . . .? A guy could argue that when that happens it un-wraps and causes higher wheel spin, think about it. If it wraps up and then loses traction it has to unwrap and then rewrap back up, seems like a vicious cycle to me.

3. If wrap is true, then why aren't we still using the "SHOCKER" rubber drive flanges from the mid 90's still. . . . ? That whole craze was from Bill Frye and mind games, funny story.

Things that make you say hmm

[fastford]

i agree with you billet , but maybe they act sort of like the old leaf spring did , you could get some unreal forward drive with them ....

[Burke1118]

Headed to PRI Saturday, really interested in these position dependent shocks. Also i seen Bilstein is supposed to have some new SLM shocks really interested in seeing them as well. Along with very high compression LRs

Any luck with this? I haven’t had any..

[hucktyson]

Those “ wrap up axels “ were the ultimate marketing scheme. Since they came about we have seen more broken axel DNF than ever before ...

[RaceEngineer]

You want a "wrap-up axle"? Try titanium. About half the spring rate. Not sure where you install a shock to control the unwrap though. Lol

[fastford]

that is why i never bought into them RE , its obvious the wrap up could gain traction , but on dirt , the uncontrolled wrap up and wrap down would take away any benefit....JMO....

[Kromulous]

PRI Show was great, new Bilstein Shocks are really nice looking. They have double, triple adjustable, and a IDA style and Canisters. ASI-R i think was the new designation but still looking for the right info on them.

Wrap axles, sounded like snake oil but just thought i would ask. We just run solid axles.

I will say out of all the PRI stuff i talked too the Penske people was the most interesting. Also talked at length to Hyperco about the springs, and stacks.

[billetbirdcage]

Generally the best advice I can give to a struggling team or one that just isn't up to speed is:

1. Stick with the basics. If you have reasonable equipment for where your racing, then work on the basic's like making the right calls on adjustments for the car thru the night, getting good and accurate feed back from the driver (this includes realizing when you are being told the wrong info, more common then you think), and if the problem is driving related. Driving issues could be as simple as running the wrong line, inducing problems, or being to aggressive or not enough, and Etc.

2. Once your able to consistently run upfront, then you can start looking at other areas to find speed but most of the time, guys aren't getting all of the speed out of their equipment they have even with very basic set ups.

3. Crew, this is probably where most are severely lacking and don't realize it. A good crew guy that actually watches the car and not the race is a HUGE plus, especially when it comes to handling problems. Many many times that crew guy can give info that driver can't and can be used to identify when the driver is feeling or misreading the car.

4. Testing, too many people try to solve problems from race to race. You can't tell crap (IMO) from a change to the car when the track is different the next time you on it. This includes from a heat race to the feature, you have no idea how much you actually changed the car or was it mostly the track that made the car different or not. Knowing how much basic changes/adjustments does to the car and if the driver can even feel them during a private test session, will go a long ways on the driver knowing if that is the right change and if it's too much or not enough and more needs to be done. YOU WILL LEARN MORE IN 6 HOURS OF A PRIVATE TEST THEN YOU WILL IN A YEAR OF RACING. Least if you have a good track and make full use of your time.

Just my thoughts

[Jking24]

Generally the best advice I can give to a struggling team or one that just isn't up to speed is:1. Stick with the basics. If you have reasonable equipment for where your racing, then work on the basic's like making the right calls on adjustments for the car thru the night, getting good and accurate feed back from the driver (this includes realizing when you are being told the wrong info, more common then you think), and if the problem is driving related. Driving issues could be as simple as running the wrong line, inducing problems, or being to aggressive or not enough, and Etc.2. Once your able to consistently run upfront, then you can start looking at other areas to find speed but most of the time, guys aren't getting all of the speed out of their equipment they have even with very basic set ups.3. Crew, this is probably where most are severely lacking and don't realize it. A good crew guy that actually watches the car and not the race is a HUGE plus, especially when it comes to handling problems. Many many times that crew guy can give info that driver can't and can be used to identify when the driver is feeling or misreading the car.4. Testing, too many people try to solve problems from race to race. You can't tell crap (IMO) from a change to the car when the track is different the next time you on it. This includes from a heat race to the feature, you have no idea how much you actually changed the car or was it mostly the track that made the car different or not. Knowing how much basic changes/adjustments does to the car and if the driver can even feel them during a private test session, will go a long ways on the driver knowing if that is the right change and if it's too much or not enough and more needs to be done. YOU WILL LEARN MORE IN 6 HOURS OF A PRIVATE TEST THEN YOU WILL IN A YEAR OF RACING. Least if you have a good track and make full use of your time.Just my thoughts

You hit the nail on the head billet especially in reference to the crew guy what happened with the guy running third is in no way helping you unless your running fourth and you probably already know what happened to him. But now days more so than ever. With the attitude of the race car being so important a good crew guy watching just two or three key things can make all the difference in the world. And most racers are always looking for speed secrets when they struggle with fundamental adjustments. One thing i hear alot is a guy say I'm to tight but everything he tells you he did adjustment wise made him tighter. Yet he does them week in and week out. When asked why he does those things he ays their just keeping up with the race track

[fastford]

billet , your no. 1 & 3 reminded me of a young driver i was trying to help , i could see him turn the wheel left , then right in the turn , he argued with me the car was not tight , he was 100% positive the car was loose , so i put the ole piece of white tape on the steering wheel and guess what , he made three laps , came back in with a big old grin on his face and said " your right , what do we do? " that piece of tape will help a young or inexperienced driver more than any thing . I also told another driver to put the tape on and he never would , 3 years later , he is still making the car loose so it will turn and still running in the back........

[ZERO25]

billet , your no. 1 & 3 reminded me of a young driver i was trying to help , i could see him turn the wheel left , then right in the turn , he argued with me the car was not tight , he was 100% positive the car was loose , so i put the ole piece of white tape on the steering wheel and guess what , he made three laps , came back in with a big old grin on his face and said " your right , what do we do? " that piece of tape will help a young or inexperienced driver more than any thing . I also told another driver to put the tape on and he never would , 3 years later , he is still making the car loose so it will turn and still running in the back........

I liked to use the neon green color, you could see it very well, esp from the infield!

Unlike drivers, the steering wheel NEVER lies! lol