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Anyone on here had any experience with them? The car in the pic is from my area and is basically a "homemade" car.He paid Zeta approx. $4,000 for 2 days of testing and has been fast right outa the box.
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I know these Pull Down Rigs are really big now, overall i would say its worth the expense if the data they have is current and known to be fast. IMHO its all about the data, you can pull down a car all day, but if you dont know what kind of numbers you need to be seeing its pretty much useless.
The Shaker rigs are just amazing.
Although, my Intel on CBR is they use them all the time to "wear" in a new chassis, and it doesn't seem to work for them LOL. Again, i guess its the data that is missing, the winning data.
Just say no... -
Just my opinion,Originally posted by Kromulous View Post
First you need that telemetry data on what your car is actually doing. There is no point in using known good numbers on the pull down if you car isn't getting or won't those travels (to a degree because you can still get camber gains, wheel base changes, toe changes and etc on a pull down without exact travel data from the telemetry and see things that are off).
Example: Say a known winning set up is 2400# on RF at 4" and you can copy the 1 thru 4" exactly but for some reason your car will never travel to that 4" number because it has a lower COG, different %'s or a variety of other reasons, that winning pull down set up does you no good because that car won't react that same for any of those reasons. Being able to see what or if the car will actually do those numbers can be a huge time saver and you can do or see a lot more if you actually have true data numbers off your car before/during a pull down test.
I also feel what you get out of a pull down rig for the average racer that isn't trying or experimenting a lot is somewhat limited, meaning you really only need to do it once for most guys unless you change set-ups radically. For the guys that are just doing normal adjustments or simple load number changes once is about all is needed until you do some major changes.
Again just my opinion.Comment
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I'm always amazed at how people forget that the old way will still work and its forgotten because of the word technology,
drill some eyebolts in the floor (like the old body shops used to use) , buy a set of scales, build an actuator cylinder for the left rear and 5th coil and you have a pull down rig, its not rocket science like most think, now a shaker rig is a whole other deal
then get some data (it can be cheap but needs to be consistent) and your ready
as hard as most work on these cars, it would only take a weekend to doComment
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Billet would a shaker rig show you COG locations etc? and how they effect the set up?
Just say no...Comment
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The overarching point here should be:
All that data in the world is of no use if you don't have the ability to gain knowledge from it by first converting it to information.Comment
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I don't see why it couldn't, but never been on one or messed with one to say for sure. However my understanding of them (there are many and there ability varies a ton on what or how much they can do) is somewhat limited, but to me the big advantage of them is to simulate running on a track (again need data of car, tire grip, and a very accurate map of track) without wearing out engines and tires. Sure since we are dealing with dirt tracks that are going to change week to week and get holes or whatever differences in the track, so you probably can't 100% test stuff like you could for an asphalt track that isn't gonna change as much, but it would save a lot of time figuring out or sorting out what really needed to be tried once you actually go to that track to test. I'm guessing this is the reason they aren't used as much in dirt racing as they are in asphalt.Originally posted by Kromulous View Post
*On a side note (sort of along the lines of what GRT74 said): I think a lot of this newer tech we are doing like smashers, telemetry, pull downs and etc can get people (lower budget teams) to start to think they can't afford this and can't compete/race without it. Its similar to people thinking you need the latest newest car/gadget/products to be competitive, I really don't find that to be totally true at least as long as your not on a national tour and expect to win. While all of this for sure helps find stuff quicker and easier, it's not an end all and can be worked around with hard work. I just don't want people to feel like they HAVE to do this or HAVE all this stuff to even compete, it's hard enough for teams to be able to afford racing as it is without adding the perception that all this other stuff is a must have also furthering the expense.Comment
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To back up what Billet is saying about people getting discouraged by this stuff:
-Pull down rigs are borderline useless after using 1 time
-Spring smashers are just a spring rater.. if you know the rates of your springs, you can replace a spring smasher with a calculator and tape measure. No magic voodoo juice here.
-Like billet, I haven't messed around with a shaker, but not sure that tech has come along enough to be that useful either. Example: If i get a data pull from a testing session, input into my shaker rig, put car on shaker rig, then the shaker rig can probably bounce the car around in a manner than looks almost identical to how it looked on the track... but lets say I add 2 packers into the RF.. does it still pull the RF down to the same linear height? Spiking the wheel load? That's not what would happen on the race track... does it pull it down until the tire load reaches what it did before? That's not what would happen on the race track either. So whats the point? I've only talked to one shaker guy and he couldn't answer that question.
Most important tool you need to race and can use to beat any of the big dogs at any race at any time.
Your brain. and it's free.Comment
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And its so easy to fall into that trap... Ive been there and done it a few times.
Although along with GRT's comment, i began fabricating 3 foot tall scale stands (tired of wollering on the ground as i say). Then i found actuators on EBay that can pull 2200lbs, so i designed up a connecting system for the 4 stands, added to the mix is our lift ( 2 post auto) and i should have a crude set up for a pull down rig. Probably wont be operational till this Winter, but its in the works.
Just say no...Comment
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Speaking of tape measures and calculators, a local hero around here i seen his notebook. He has every spring on a given corner that he would run, charted out in measurements and lbs every .100 of a inch, 1 full turn on his brand shock. He would change spring and just wind whichever way, and would be right at the number he wanted. So i think there guys out there that still do it the old ways, plus save some bucks.
Me i enjoy making things, so just made me a smasher out of a trailer jack, and a scale. I have about $700 in it, and my time.
Just say no...Comment
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I had to pay for my brain, I think I paid $10.00 but think I got ripped off, LMAOOriginally posted by Austin34471 View PostComment
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On a side note. Even though this car was a copy of a Longhorn, there were a lot of little things that needed to be changed, thus the 2 full days at $250/hr.
The guys that built it are local builders, and have built many winning cars in the past (locally and regionally). Their jig fixtures are a little unorthodox, hence most likely for the necessary changes.Comment
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What did they have to change? Just wondering.
Are you referring to the Dixie Metal Works "Cattle Car"?
Just say no...Comment
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