Chasing an Issue on the LR/RF

[missile07]

Just throwing this out there.

When the triple stack is set correctly at ride height, the plastic coil stackers that go between the springs are very close to touching( possibly touching). What would this do to the spring rate? Could it cause it to be near solid or so high that the springs are sluggish to lift the car?

(this was a suggestion to look at thru a private message)

[Jking24]

If they are touching it is essentially canceling out the middle spring during any further tavel witch would increase spring rate. I have no experience with triple stacks but i would guess this is supposed to do the same as a lock out collar to increase spring rate in order to hold the car up at ride height

[Swedge]

Quick Question here: Have you checked the 5th, 6th and lift arm at all? Its making me wonder if the bars are low enough that your instant center of the left side bars is right at the point where you getting low enough with the antisquat percentage that the traction in the track is allowing just enough migration to get the car up on the bars but when there is no traction available it goes away. If your lift arm assembly got damaged (lift arm is broken, spring failed on either the 5th of 6th coil) or just by happenstance broke at the time of the incident you could be chasing your tail. Obv, im assuming that you have checked for binds and other clearance issues as other members have discussed. A broken, cracked or bent birdcage could cause the same issue if you are binding the heim before the car gets on the chain. Im just offering a few other things to look at since it seems like you are quickly depleting options and budget.

[JustAddDirt]

sounds to me like by op's description that the LR is statically higher with the Integra shock. Which leads me to believe the issue is with the car sitting too low, and not wanting to get up on the bars. In my option he needs to a, get a new lr bump stop, or add a couple packers to increase the static ride height just a bit.
JMO though. If bolting on another shock fixed the issue, and car seems to act like it did before.

[missile07]

Thanks for the replies.

We have changed out the 5th coil shock, took lift bar loose and checked it. We have not replaced the birdcages yet but have taken them off and checked them per the chassis builder.

There has never been a bump stop on the LR shock. The car has always sat very low in the lr and according to the chassis builder is on purpose. We played with the triple stack springs this weekend on the smasher and one of them starts bending once very much load is applied. We have ordered new springs but they have not come in yet. Chassis builder thinks this spring is bad and it doesn't have enough energy to "pop" the left rear up from the low ride height. I'd like to understand more about the stored energy in springs but honestly I dont know.

Just to confirm we weren't completely crazy, we stuck the integra with the 125 spring on the left rear again. Sat the car down and it is 1.5" higher at ride height. Driver got in and drove the car 15ft and turned left and it planted the LR and jumped up.

[missile07]

Also here are some measurements if it helps on how low the LR in this car sits..

From the ground to the center of the upper shock mounts:

RF-27 3/4"
LF-27 3/4"
RR-26 1/2"
LR-25 1/2"

These numbers are with the triple stack setup. The center to center number with the triple stack at ride height is at 18 1/4".

Again these numbers are with the old springs.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Thanks for the replies.

We have changed out the 5th coil shock, took lift bar loose and checked it. We have not replaced the birdcages yet but have taken them off and checked them per the chassis builder.

There has never been a bump stop on the LR shock. The car has always sat very low in the lr and according to the chassis builder is on purpose. We played with the triple stack springs this weekend on the smasher and one of them starts bending once very much load is applied. We have ordered new springs but they have not come in yet. Chassis builder thinks this spring is bad and it doesn't have enough energy to "pop" the left rear up from the low ride height. I'd like to understand more about the stored energy in springs but honestly I dont know.

Just to confirm we weren't completely crazy, we stuck the integra with the 125 spring on the left rear again. Sat the car down and it is 1.5" higher at ride height. Driver got in and drove the car 15ft and turned left and it planted the LR and jumped up.

You have too much spring rate or too low height at ride. One is different than before.

[Jking24]

Thanks for the replies. We have changed out the 5th coil shock, took lift bar loose and checked it. We have not replaced the birdcages yet but have taken them off and checked them per the chassis builder.There has never been a bump stop on the LR shock. The car has always sat very low in the lr and according to the chassis builder is on purpose. We played with the triple stack springs this weekend on the smasher and one of them starts bending once very much load is applied. We have ordered new springs but they have not come in yet. Chassis builder thinks this spring is bad and it doesn't have enough energy to "pop" the left rear up from the low ride height. I'd like to understand more about the stored energy in springs but honestly I dont know.Just to confirm we weren't completely crazy, we stuck the integra with the 125 spring on the left rear again. Sat the car down and it is 1.5" higher at ride height. Driver got in and drove the car 15ft and turned left and it planted the LR and jumped up.

The. Ride hieght loads of the stack and the 125 have to be different

[crownman25]

poor guy like a lost ball in a field full of very very tall weeds....

[dirtdobberrr]

Maybe the replacement shock does not have the same extremely high gas pressure that the first shock had in it, or maybe the shock builder screwed up and changed the rebound rate on the shock. That is about the only two things left, assuming that something is not bent/bound up from the wreck.

[missile07]

Yes with the triple stack the ride height is lower (18.25 to 18.5 center to center) (normal to us). With the 125# spring it is higher (20 center to center) but it works.

We replaced all 3 springs with new springs on the triple stack & went back to the original settings (original smash numbers on all 4 corners, original 4 link holes, everything back to standard before the wreck)....still nothing.

Last night we put the 125 spring on the Bilstein shock in question. Put it to our center to center number for extended load and it worked fine.

At our standard ride height on LR the triple stack combo with no bump & no lock out nut is roughly 300 lbs less load than the 125# spring at the same height.

We agree the ride seems low but I have spoken with another car owner with basically the same chassis and his is the same. He is not on the triple stack though.

Still searching

[Kromulous]

So what is your load at ride and extended?

No matter how many springs you have load is load, if your running 3 springs the collective rate is really low. I dont know what your running but i would venture to say in the 50lb range.

So ride is 18", and you need 600 lbs. you need to compress that 3 stacker 12" to hold up that weight, 12 !! The 125lb you need to compress it 4.8"

So take your ride number, Load, and divide it by the spring rate, and if your not compressing that spring by that amount something is way off. Same for extended.

You must of had some sort of digressive set up on there with lock nuts OR the sliders were jamming up on the threads of the shock body and adding load in that you couldn't account for. I think this maybe what happened. Because i read where you had no lock outs etc. Something goofy like that, because at the end of the day load is load and spring rate is rate. Only out lie'er is gas pressure in the shock, and binds.

[Jking24]

I think you have a miss understanding about what needs to happen with smash numbers and "ride" height. You can't run 300# less lr ride height and the car work the same as it did its just not possible. Don't be offended but I think you and your chassis manufacture are not on the same page with some things. Especially with the stack lr assembly

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Yes with the triple stack the ride height is lower (18.25 to 18.5 center to center) (normal to us). With the 125# spring it is higher (20 center to center) but it works.

We replaced all 3 springs with new springs on the triple stack & went back to the original settings (original smash numbers on all 4 corners, original 4 link holes, everything back to standard before the wreck)....still nothing.

Last night we put the 125 spring on the Bilstein shock in question. Put it to our center to center number for extended load and it worked fine.

At our standard ride height on LR the triple stack combo with no bump & no lock out nut is roughly 300 lbs less load than the 125# spring at the same height.

We agree the ride seems low but I have spoken with another car owner with basically the same chassis and his is the same. He is not on the triple stack though.

Still searching

Your antisquat geometry and "push" from your spring have to be sufficient to overcome the weight and the rebound damping. I'd just run what is working and move on. Taking 300# away from your ride load is going to have a potentially huge effect.

[missile07]

Just another update...

We have ran 3 nights so far this year. 4th, 3rd, & a 2nd. Should have won all 3 nights but due to our continuing issue the car is so so lazy on restarts & will not climb the bars until the first turn.

We can run the 125 spring but it throws our decking and ride height too high for tech to be able to have our extended load at 200.

I have had several ppl message me about putting a bump stop and packers on and try that route. So I think we may try the triple stack (42 lbs) at 18.25" with 720 lbs including the bumps & packers.