MasterSbilt Entry Push

[citiracer]

On one of the tracks we race at we have been fighting an entry push (on or off the gas). We've got the bars in "by the book" position for tacky track which should help it turn. Our springs are LF-500, RF-450, LR-225, RR-225. 54.5% left, 53.8% rear, 80 lbs of bite. J-bar is 1/2" above pinion on pinion side and at 8.5" on frame. Ballast is mounted in reasonable locations that shouldn't be causing the issue.
This track is much higher banked than other tracks we run. We normally run a 425 RF spring at other tracks but it bottoms out at this track so we switched to the 450 which should also help us turn on entry I think.
We were finally able to get it to turn good on entry by moving the lower right bar ALL the way up but this seems like a crutch to me since that is an extreme setup and this is when the track slicked off so I really don't know if that would have worked earlier in the night. Is there anything I am missing for a high-banked 3/8 deal that is causing our problem? Do I need to try raising the entire j-bar a little bit? For what it's worth, the entry push gets worse and worse as the race goes on but we aren't overheating any of the tires and they appear to be working good.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

What type of shocks are you running?

[citiracer]

Afco twin tubes. We've had them done by a very reputable shock guy. We're going to step up to gas shocks all the way around next season.

[rubbinsracin]

we run the twin tubes and they are a good shock. might lower the LS % just a bit. we had this problem at the beginning of the year with a push...especially on throttle...and we lowered out LS% down to 53.5 from 54.5 and it really made a big difference.

where do you have you bar angles at?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I would lower the j bar at the frame.

[jedclampit]

Try a 200# spring in the RR
..... make sure camber is correct at rf.
Some big corner banked tracks it takes a lot (150-240#) of bite to get the car loosened up in.
The rr spring change should make a noticeable difference.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Try a 200# spring in the RR
..... make sure camber is correct at rf.
Some big corner banked tracks it takes a lot (150-240#) of bite to get the car loosened up in.
The rr spring change should make a noticeable difference.

I was a little scared to suggest that not knowing how bad the push was, shock travels, etc. It will make a big difference though.

[citiracer]

As far as how bad the push is...it's an actual push and not just a "tight" condition. One of the corners is a little more banked than the other one and the push is worse in that corner.
We are about 2 inches from bottoming out on RR shock travel and the track is kind of rough so it probably isn't traveling that much all the time so I think we may have room for a softer spring there.

[35racing]

Im fighting the same issue and my setup is almost spot on to yours except im around 130# wedge and Im running a 200# RR. my track has some banking but not extreme and its a 1/2 mile. I moved both LR and RR top bars all the way up and it has helped a fair amount but now pushing in the middle the longer the race goes on also.

It does seem like a crutch to be running these bar angles on a slick track!! Im thinking of going up with the J-bar myself.... running out of ideas

Good luck

[jedclampit]

I was a little scared to suggest that not knowing how bad the push was, shock travels, etc. It will make a big difference though.

I went there because he said he can run the rr lower uphill, in slick conditions!

To Citiracer---You MAY not have the correct ride height at the rr, I can't help you with a measurement, although MBR probably can & will.
A 450 in the lf may be worth a try also,some banked tracks require you to load up the cross in the chassis, either statically or dynamic to get loosened up.

Is this an older car?
A full setup may disclose other areas of suspect,

[01racing]

do you really think you need a 450 rf spring

[citiracer]

It's a 2005 with 2011 updates.
Full setup is pretty much in my original post - let me know if there is additional information that might help.
RR ride height is 7-3/8" per MasterSbilt.
The only reason we run a 450 RF on this particular track is because we bottom out the shock on anything softer. We normally run 400-425 on lesser banked tracks and have considered going even lower. This higher-banked track is the only place we are having this push on entry issue although we have been on the tight side most of the year when the tracks are tacky but we've been able to correct it for the most part.
At this point I think we may try the softer (200) RR the next time out at this track.

[dualdj1]

remember softening rr spring can also tighten you on exit. softening left front will mainly effect entry, but can loosen up overall. just another way to go with it.

[racin29]

what are your front tire pressures you said its not really a tight condition its more of a push, like wheel slide? is the car on the bars going in or not, also is it a big momentum track

[grt74]

you could rock the car over some too,on a high banked track the car is pulled more down in stead of to the right,bite,lf spring,rr spring,left side % but we go up on it if the car wont turn,just some ideas also most of the time very little j bar until it slicks off