timing problem

[perfconn]

Andy 16
Not one single reply suggested that he spend more money.I only stated that he would never do away with spark scatter unless he uses a crank trigger.You are right that Nationwise can use roller cams but you are wrong about why they use the big a$$ cam cores. You stated that they use them to control cam timing.If you think that a roller cam with 16 valve springs with over 600 pounds open on each lobe doesn't cause the cam to twist,therefore causing the timing to jump,then you don't understand engines.Crank triggers do not send the timing through the distributor.The distributor is only used to distribute the spark,it has nothing to do with creating the spark or timing of the spark.With crank trigger the crank flex,timing chain strech,cam flex,gear mesh and all the things that cause timing flutter become irrevelant on timing.Don't mean to step on your toes but facts are facts.As far as adjusting individual cylinder timing,you don't need to adjust them individually when using crank trigger because every cylinder is dead on.Using a pickup in the distributor will never,ever out perform a crank trigger.I have never seen a magnet come out of a trigger wheel,in fact not all trigger wheels even have a magnet in them.Some just have 4 notches.

[abe_05]

Looks to me everyone going over board, is your distrubitor locked? Or do you still have advance springs on it? What rpm does it bounce at ? Idle? 3,000 rpm would be a good rpm to always set timing by not idle.

[perfconn]

Agreed.Timing bounce is normal.Don't get carried away buying reluctors and other stuff to solve a problem that you can't solve without spending money.Who said racing was for poor people? Haven't seen a speedshop lately that takes food stamps.

[andy16]

alright i admit i got carried away also. apologies to perfcon and dave.ive removed some of what i said just had a bad day...i dont know everything and have learned from this post and i thank you. i still wanna argue a littlebit tho. i said in my first post that triggers can be better we all agree on that. im just not convinced there necesary to have no timing bounce. i have seen magnets fall out from tire shake/dropped hole harmonics plenty of times. and your right, no the distributor doesn controll anything or tell the box when to fire but it still controlls the rotor and the strikers relationship to the post in the cap what i call "phasing" and the gap between them bounces because of all the same reasons any other distributor bounces.thats why dave when you switch from one to the other it may be a little different. on some cars ive worked on in the past that used crank triggers we could see our rotor "phasing" in comparison to its actual fire and we could never get them to match by using a phasing tool. always was different when engine was running so we set it while engine was running . i assume thats why you run both is so you can see and set your phasing while engne is running and is the best idea ive heard for a circle track setup so far. this phasing bounce can cause timing bounce in a crank trigger system because the bigger the gap the further the spark has to jump/longer time untill fire, from striker to post and the weaker it gets.both systems can work well and both need maintenance. and as for individual cyl timing we didn change it to correct torsional twists/slack we changed it because the manifold runners are different lenghts causing a different air fuel mixture to the further away cylinders causing them to detonate sooner than the other 4. the camshaft twisting yes that happens and has been measured. and if you can afford it you can have your camshaft ground with the profiles slightly twisted the opposite direction so that at wot the cam is straight. this was done on a motor that already had a crank trigger so it wasn done for spark timing/phasing. also with a larger core you can get a larger base circle and be able to get a more aggresive profile/controll especially for flat tappet cams. and your exactly right im sure timing has been more stabilized from this.you guys are smart and you do know what your talking about... i always enjoy reading you twos posts as they are always informative and on the cutting edge.

[andy16]

as for the comment about everyone having to spend more money i was just frustrated when you go from racing on someone elses money to racing on your own its kindof a shock just seems like by the time i can save money to buy the next greatest thing get it on the car and understand it theres somethin better coming out that the well funded guys almost in a way force you to get because you need to stay competitive or the track waits till youve already got it to outlaw it... just gets to you sometimes... maybe i need a break

[sj valley dave]

@ Andy16, no prob...No harm meant, no harm caused...Have a great weekend!

[perfconn]

Yep,we are all in this together.Bottom line is don't spend money trying to redesign the wheel.

[perfconn]

Andy 16
I don't do the pm thing but you can email me at terry.marciaburnett@gmail.com
I understand your frustration.I dealt with trying to buy the latest greatest stuff for 40 years only to discover that most of the time what I had was as good or better than the latest trick.When you are 3 or 4 tengths off, looking for hundreths of a second is a waste of time and money.

[andy16]

sometimes i need to be told that... again and again lol thanks