why have rayburns fallen behind?

[abe_05]

CJ invented the 4-bar, in case you didn't know. He is still stuck on swing arm for sure. From a engineering stand point the swing arm sounds better and it makes more sense in some ways. Before I go to far, I have been racing Rayburn on swing arm for couple years and I have gone back to 4-bar with different make chassis. If you could run wide open all the time a swing arm would be awesome but you can't. If you haven't been in a Rayburn before, the swing arm with pull bar combination gives the best forward drive out there, only problem you have is you have to slow down sometimes and turn left. That is were the 4-bars are so good thru the middle of the corner and the swing arm is behide. The swing arm just needs a little help and I will agree that CJ is behide on shocks. I talked him last a couple months back and he has finally ageed that is behide on shocks and he has been working on shock package. He currently has new lr shock package. I hope the best for CJ, I would buy another in a heart beat if things could turn around.

[guidi]

He'll be back

[Matt49]

With all due respect to CJ ( and plenty is due), he didn't INVENT the 4-bar. He may have been the first to build a late model with it but it was around on drag cars and even tractors before late models.

[abe_05]

You are correct but I meant in late models with 4-bars that were on floaters. He actually had some help in the design of it but he is the one that pushed it. Anybody wants some history on CJ google CJ interview, he did a interview on some internet talk show about a month ago. It is long but he goes back and talks about everyone that helped him over the years and who is helping him now. Here is the link http://pinterest.com/pin/407505466252331654/.

[F22 RAPTOR]

Just curious what has changed that people feel they are obsolete? Is it because they are swing arm and not 4link?

Ummm, the newer cars are either 4-link, SwingArm or Watts and come with a J-bar mount so you can run them anyway you like... As to the gentlemans comment about CJ's shock thoughts, that must've been some years ago is all I can figure, because I know when I was with Carrera racing shocks(98'-04') we did some work with CJ on some stuff, we even won the World 100 with Schleiper and our shocks on a Rayburn car. I've heard a lot of people say Rayburn cars and swingarms especially are out of date and non-competitive, but a lot of the drivers I knew who were Rayburn drivers for years and left haven't run up front as consistantly since leaving, the two exceptions to that would be Moyer and O'neal. Babb, Schleiper and several others left while still running good only to seemingly never regain their previous momentum. Peer pressure and trends can distort reality sometimes I think and racers get off track. Sure the swingarms cars had their weaknesses, but 4-link/J-bar cars do too. Trends come and go, whats hot today can't get out of its own way tomorrow. To each his own, if he has the courage to follow it.

[guidi]

Ummm, the newer cars are either 4-link, SwingArm or Watts and come with a J-bar mount so you can run them anyway you like... As to the gentlemans comment about CJ's shock thoughts, that must've been some years ago is all I can figure, because I know when I was with Carrera racing shocks(98'-04') we did some work with CJ on some stuff, we even won the World 100 with Schleiper and our shocks on a Rayburn car. I've heard a lot of people say Rayburn cars and swingarms especially are out of date and non-competitive, but a lot of the drivers I knew who were Rayburn drivers for years and left haven't run up front as consistantly since leaving, the two exceptions to that would be Moyer and O'neal. Babb, Schleiper and several others left while still running good only to seemingly never regain their previous momentum. Peer pressure and trends can distort reality sometimes I think and racers get off track. Sure the swingarms cars had their weaknesses, but 4-link/J-bar cars do too. Trends come and go, whats hot today can't get out of its own way tomorrow. To each his own, if he has the courage to follow it.

Couldn't have said it better myself

[racin6mod]

CJ'S ideas must not be too fare off most of the top builders still copy his ideas. A bloomer custom is a rayburn with scotts mods as is the bob pierce lm's they both have changed a few bars to hide what ther really doing but both have said in print ther cars are rayburn copies mastersbuilt started off as a copy years ago and to this day keep a close eye on what cj's doing. hell hundreds of small chassis builders are copy his cars and put ther names on them. to me one of the biggest reasons rayburns are behind is that he does not give the top guy's free chassis like most others do.thats because he know the small guy's are paing more for ther cars to make up for the free cars to the big boyz. rayburns will be back look at warrior how many years where they down and out now they're coming back as is a few others

[F22 RAPTOR]

CJ'S ideas must not be too fare off most of the top builders still copy his ideas. A bloomer custom is a rayburn with scotts mods as is the bob pierce lm's they both have changed a few bars to hide what ther really doing but both have said in print ther cars are rayburn copies mastersbuilt started off as a copy years ago and to this day keep a close eye on what cj's doing. hell hundreds of small chassis builders are copy his cars and put ther names on them. to me one of the biggest reasons rayburns are behind is that he does not give the top guy's free chassis like most others do.thats because he know the small guy's are paing more for ther cars to make up for the free cars to the big boyz. rayburns will be back look at warrior how many years where they down and out now they're coming back as is a few others

Very good points.