Too much TRACTION!

[7uptruckracer]

You said the car was hopping on the bars.....that in my experience is to much bar angle on uppers to much jbar rake or to short of jbar. I would still drop both uppers 1 hole. Or like someone else said move your chain maybe on LR or maybe even LR and RR same amount since that would also be limiting dynamic bar angle gain. What does everyone else think being he did say its POGOing

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

So if your car wont turn on entry, you put more rf spring. That doesn't work on the tracks I race at. I'm certainly not bragging, but I've been doing this for 25 plus years. I've tested just about everything on 5th coil setups and longer/softer 5th coils gave more forward bite.Fifth coils are torque absorbers so you don't shear the tires contact patch. Maybe its just the sandy clays we race on, but Josh Richards told me he does the same adj.

My testing has often given opposite results. It all comes down to giving the tires the load as fast as they can handle it.

[fastford]

not wanting to change the subject here, but the talk above about wheel hoping and a limiter chain made me think of a car I noticed a while back. it was a over rail car and had a 6th coil set up like you run on the lift bar on the left rear for a limiter, it made since to me, has any one else saw something like this?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

not wanting to change the subject here, but the talk above about wheel hoping and a limiter chain made me think of a car I noticed a while back. it was a over rail car and had a 6th coil set up like you run on the lift bar on the left rear for a limiter, it made since to me, has any one else saw something like this?

I tried one in 2005. Car wheel hopped terribly.

[25drtrkr]

I guess there is one important, if not MOST important, things we have not included in this discussion..TIRES! Whether you race on soft or hard ones and all the different track conditions we each race on. I read one engineers thoughts, and he said "the hardest thing in dirt racing is deciding why a particular tire is sliding....too much load or not enough"!

[stock car driver]

25drtkt, your posts are confusing at best.

Seems as though your a crew guy?

It makes it hard to give merit to anything you post when you appear to just be regurgitating information from others, not first hand knowledge.

On the Smack cars I worked on, we would start with a 300 in the second hole forward.When the track slicked off, we would put a 325 in the first hole.This is what the house car was doing at the time along with several other adj to tighten it up.As a crew chief, I never worked so hard between heats and feature, trying to get the car tight enough.There was a lot of time consuming adjustments.

but also the Rocket camp has confirmed that with me during many conversations.

but Josh Richards told me he does the same adj.

[25drtrkr]

I see I didn't explain that very well. My point was that with the older setups (MB Smack cars), we always went shorter and stiffer to gain forward traction. Now, with the newer setups, longer and softer gives more traction. When you've consulted drivers such as EPJ and Josh, and you try what they recommended, and it works, why argue with the reasons why?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I see I didn't explain that very well. My point was that with the older setups (MB Smack cars), we always went shorter and stiffer to gain forward traction. Now, with the newer setups, longer and softer gives more traction. When you've consulted drivers such as EPJ and Josh, and you try what they recommended, and it works, why argue with the reasons why?

If somebody hands you a fish, you eat today.

If you know how to get the fish, you never go hungry.

[Bubstr]

It is important to understand why, so you don't trip on the same stumbling block again. Chassis change, engines change and drivers change. The only thing that stays constant is the laws of physics. If you understand them, there is always a reason these cars do what they do. It's applied forces and resistance values.

Did you ever wonder, why guys like Moyer, Bloomquist and Berkkoffer can change cars and still have great results? They may lack in a automotive engineering degree, but we would have to give them a A+ in shade tree engineering.

Take Wheel hop. Hop would suggest some kind of oscillation. Loading and unloading of the tire contact patch. From there, there are many possible reasons that align with the Physics. Physics is law and some of these laws have been law for a Millennium and still prove true. It's how we apply these laws, where it goes astray. Looking at a problem in a single plane, when it's a multiple plane problem. Take the tire contact patch as a example. It is a point vector for several forces. Think of the other planes that effect this simple point vector. Angle of force, amount of force, the multiple directions of force, is the force constant, do the force vectors change, are the forces constant due to material, a bump, a big bump, side wall rigidity, rim size, air pressure, tire elasticity, tread, the track surface it's self just to name a few. These variables are the reason Physical law seems skewed, when it is not. I'll grant you, it may be close to impossible to find numbers for all these, but they are things that help you detect the problem. When you do find it, it makes Physical law make sense. Your job is detective, more than mechanic, most of the time. These laws are tools to depend on, because they don't change. Most all here know more Physical law, than they think they know. Don't let it scare you. Things in motion, tend to stay in motion and things at rest, tend to stay at rest by Izack Newton, descries shock valving and corner transition and weight transfer basics along with forward drive and picking a gear.

[25drtrkr]

25drtkt, your posts are confusing at best.

Seems as though your a crew guy?

It makes it hard to give merit to anything you post when you appear to just be regurgitating information from others, not first hand knowledge.

Not first hand knowledge??? Do you not read your own quotes? All of my posts on here are things I have personally tried or tested. When I used the term,we, I was referring to it as a team, which always means I was the crew chief. Im not one to offer advice if I haven't personally tried it before.

[grt74]

If somebody hands you a fish, you eat today.

If you know how to get the fish, you never go hungry.

maybe i need to go hungry for awhile(it wouldn't hurt to loose some weight),as always you have great advise

[25drtrkr]

If somebody hands you a fish, you eat today.

If you know how to get the fish, you never go hungry.

That is true.......unfortunately, in dirt racing, a lot of the "fish" you catch, don't even qualify as stink bait!

[RacerX10]

I'm chiming in a vote for gear change. What's your high RPM reading ?

[7uptruckracer]

I don't guess anyone reads this is a CRATE car...... and he said hes bogging....

[fastford]

your right 7up, I often wander why they even have a crate section any more, cause no one uses it.