Hond Journals?

[Axis Racing]

Are any of you running the small rod journals? It looks like Race Engineering has rods available with 1.888" Honda journals and Esslinger is releasing 1.850" Nascar journals. Have you seen any gain going to these new journal sizes?

Best I can tell is that Nascar has made their rules so that the smallest rod journal size allowed is 1.850", and I've heard that all the teams have gone to this size, is that correct? So is it better than the 1.888" Honda size for my mini-stock too?

[needhp]

Yes the Cup guys use the IRL size rod journals 1.850" (Nascar put a minimum on at this diameter). They are doing it for reduced bearing speed and less surface area for friction). The biggest benefit on a 2.3 would be so that the crank grinder can provide a larger radius at the edges to provide additional strength to the crank.

[Big E tech]

Need hp is correct, the smaller journal diameter lowers the bearing speed, and allows the crank to be ground with a larger radius (fillet) to increase the strength. The factory crank has around a .080" radius on the rod journals from the factory. Most aftermarket cranks, including our sBillet 4340 cranks, have a .125" radius to increase the strength. Without grinding the rod journal wider, the only way to get to the .125" radius on an OEM crank is to reduce the journal diameter at least .080". The difference in bearing speed between the Honda 1.889" journal and the 1.850" NASCAR/ IRL journal is 2 percent. That 2 percent isn't really worth going to the smaller journal, but when the rods are designed correctly for the smaller journal, they will have less drag, less windage losses, and be lighter to boot! That's the reason we chose to go with the 1.850" NASCAR/ IRL journal diameter on our new Black Magic series rods. These new rods use a smaller .787" wristpin, so they also require specific pistons not the standard .927" wristpin size our normal long rod pistons use. The new pistons start at 274grams though compared to 360grams for our standard 5.7 rod 3.810" bore Wiseco pistons...

[84Dave]

Big E.......... are you Esslinger Engineering? Or associated with Dan & Co. ? 84Dave

[let-r-eat]

I have used the 1.771 journal many times. I've saw no ill effects of doing so. I've also used the VW 1.809 rod journal many times. The 1.742 Escort rod journal can be used. Just so the crank grinder uses a nice radius I've seen no ill effects.I've run .787 pins also.

[Big E tech]

We've done the 1.771" journal on 3.1L engines and just got the first one back for a rebuild after a complete season... The crank looks cherry! Bearings do show slightly more wear than a standard 2.046" journal, but definitely could have raced 5-10 more shows no problem!The 1.850" journals make for a great little combo for sure!

[Big E tech]

Big E.......... are you Esslinger Engineering? Or associated with Dan & Co. ? 84Dave

Yes Dave, I am the guy that answers most of the tech calls at Esslinger...