No heat in RF tire?

[drtrkr244]

It appears the car has too much drive.His springs versus what GRT recommends points to being too tight.

I would change springs to what GRT says and/or reduce rear to 55%.

If the RF was still alot cooler than RR(10 plus degrees), put a piece ol lead on RF bar and soften RF spring.

[dirttrackrocker]

Sorry about the confusion... My car isn't a GRT. Sorry if I hijacked the original posters thread. Just a similar problem...

[Dirtrunner35]

Friday night my RF tire had no heat at all on a slick track. Entry was ok and a little loose off.

[drtrkr244]

Were the other cars driving off from you? Sometimes its not possible to get good drive off, if the track is super slick.

Sometimes, you have to treat the gas pedal like it was an egg.

If thats not the case, drop RTT bar, increase 5th coil spring, raise LTT, or lower LBB bar.

[Egoracing]

A softer right front spring will not put more heat in it , when you hit a bump or the cushion hit the gas if not the front will come around on you. A softer right front will make the front bite more with the left front, so the car will have more bite in the front and not the rear, making it not so tight ( push ).

What are your tire pressures?? What is your shock compression on right front and rebound on left rear ? Compression on left front and rebound ? Pull the rr back at little to free it up .

If the existing RF spring is not allowing weight to transfer to the RF a softer spring that will allow weight to transfer will increase the load and get the tire working which will increase the temp of the tire.

[drtrkr244]

If the existing RF spring is not allowing weight to transfer to the RF a softer spring that will allow weight to transfer will increase the load and get the tire working which will increase the temp of the tire.

EGO, check out grt's "Tuning car with springs" under Set-up Help.

I'm from "Show-me-state", so I put a car on scales and changed springs, using a ratchet strap to get car to dynamic ride height. You will be amazed at what you find out.

[Dirtrunner35]

EGO. I wouldn't think a 600 lb spring is to much, he could add more compression to the RF shock and build more heat, but since his car is tight I would think it would be worse if he did that.

My example

Take 4 springs the same height with different lbs , put them on the scales and put a board on all of them. Put 100 lb of weight in the center of the board and see what scale shows the most weight.

I still say your car is too tight IMHO. Fix what the car is doing and worry about the temps later.
Tight/ loose syndrome, after the first turn being tight, he starts to drive different and car gets worse, IMHO.

A tight car is too much traction in the rear compared to the front.

A loose car is too much traction in the front compared to the rear.

Let us know if you race this weekend how it goes.

[Egoracing]

putting weight on a spring on the scale OR strapping the car up with rachet straps will not tell you what is happening during cornering with weight transfer. If a car has a throttle push because the RF is not working when you get the RF working you may actually loose the push.

http://www.integrashocksandsprings.com/general/assets/PDFs/4LinkDirtSuspensionShockTuningGd.pdf

TO MAKE CAR STEER MORE
POSITIVE ON CORNER ENTRY
AND THROTTLE
• Soften right front spring

[drtrkr244]

Weight transfer is just like changing your cars left and rear percentages.

The only way to change it is by moving lead or components.

Softening Rf spring only cures tight entry while on throttle, ie. decreasing wedge.

Are we to assume you think Joe Garrison doesn't know what hes talking about in his setup info?

[Dirtrunner35]

A stiffer RF spring will loosen the front and make the push worse , now if the car was loose I would agree and say put a stiffer spring in the RF.

More weight transfer from left to right in either end of a car will loosen that end. I would get a 13 inch Lr spring or lower the cross even more.

What ever changes he does I hope it's better this weekend.

[drtrkr244]

Thats the fun of dirt racing. Deciding what will make those four little rubber contact patches work better.

Its not always cut and dry.

Knowing when to increase/decrease load on a particular corner is the hard part.

Why is one or more corners of the car not working? Is the load on that tire too much or not enough? Is the spring too stiff thus shearing the contact patch? Is the tire too soft or too hard?

Deciding on whether a tire needs more or less load for a particular track condition is the trickiest part.

[leadfoot_35]

Thats the fun of dirt racing. Deciding what will make those four little rubber contact patches work better.

Its not always cut and dry.

Knowing when to increase/decrease load on a particular corner is the hard part.

Why is one or more corners of the car not working? Is the load on that tire too much or not enough? Is the spring too stiff thus shearing the contact patch? Is the tire too soft or too hard?

Deciding on whether a tire needs more or less load for a particular track condition is the trickiest part.

I don't mean to high jack the thread but you guys have me thinking. What is your opinions on tire temps? For instance, the LR tire is hotter than the RR. Would you say the RR is working more or less than the LR?

[Egoracing]

drtrkr244 you are dead on, there are SO many variables. Is it pushing becasue the front is overworked and giving up OR not working enough and the rear is working harder OR the RF or LR has a bent shock which is not allowing the suspension to work, OR the LS weight is so high that is is letting the right side slide and keeping weight from transfering. You have to kind of take what ANYONE tells you (even the chassis mfg) and think about what your car is doing and if the adjustment will make it do what you want it to do.

leadfoot, A tire gets heat due to 2 things, weight load causing it to work and if it is spinning and the friction is causing the heat. Many times a colder tire is that way because it is working better and not spinning, you have to look at the tire wear and see what it is telling you.

[Egoracing]

Weight transfer is just like changing your cars left and rear percentages.

The only way to change it is by moving lead or components.

Softening Rf spring only cures tight entry while on throttle, ie. decreasing wedge.

Are we to assume you think Joe Garrison doesn't know what hes talking about in his setup info?

There is a reason that the WOO and Lucas drivers are winning races against locals, the books and adjustment guides are 2-3 year old or older info NOT the best but they wont get you into trouble. If you get the first 2 GRT books there is information in them that directly contradict each other. The information on Integras site is the best I have seen for a LONG time.

A softer RF will allow the weight centerline of the chasis to gain leverage on the top of the spring and it will load the spring more it will also allow the LR suspension to extend during weight transfer to the RF(the cars work corner to coner across the chassis not LF to RF and LR to RR). This will allow the car to already be in an attack position when you get onto the gas and it keeps the car from falling off of the bars going into the corner until you pick up the gas.

If the car is going to transfer 800 lbs from LR to RF and you are running a 600 lb RF it is going to compress the spring 1.5 inches. Not alot of movement in the RF and probably not enough to get the spring lower than the weight centerline as it raised during acceleration. NOW same setup with a 200 lb spring is going to compress the spring 4 inches which is going to allow the LR to unload more and raise the weight centerline as the chassis goes up. The added compression and added lift will allow more transfer.

Out your car on scales with a stifff RF and jack up the LR until it adds 5-800 lbs on the RF. Now put a soft one in and jack it up until you transfered the same weight and look how much higher the LR is and how much lower the RF is once you get the weight the same.

[missile07]

Will transfering my weight over on the right front hurt trying to transfer the weight to the right rear? It doesn't seem to get weight transfer to the right side at all. The car is tight in on throttle and tight in off throttle. Forcing me to stab the brakes to get it to turn and resulting in poor exit forward bite.

We were rained out so I haven't been able to try anything.