settle this argument plz

[dirtracr33]

four bar both sides, 175 spring behind on left rear....crewman is wearing me out about taking all the bar angle out and running like a 275-300 spring on lr....says the spring should carry the load, thus providing more forward bite than the bars will...also that the bars make the lr too rigid and bouncy...thanks for any input..

[charcoal01]

Why run a 4 link then? Tell him this, the day jeremy payne, or Terry phillips, or rodney sanders puts a 300 pound spring on a coil behind 4 link is the day that you'll run that setup. The moment the car lifts off that spring because of very little preload you'll have no drive at all.

[MM90]

Set it up and run it. A point will be made either way.

[Confused?]

If the car is up on the bars correctly, no more weight can be on that tire without changing precentages. The springs are meant to keep the tires in contact with the surface. But, as stated above, I think the car will raise up just enough to unload the spring and your bite will be gone.

Removing the angle will remove indexing, which increases bar angle and spring loading. It will also remove roll on throttle roll steer. You may gain a little more instant bite but I believe it will disappear almost as quickly.

But like MM90 stated, try it. Some people just need to see that something may not work. Personally, I would not waste my time with it but that's just me.

[7uptruckracer]

A LR 4bar car is loaded with the bars not the spring. The spring is in rebound so it isn't transferring any to the tire

[clbaker25x]

275 at least, bigger the better is what I always say.

[dirtrace09]

He does not understand the movements and logic behind the spring behind concept. Use a jack under the seat area and jack it up and down. have him watch spring and bar angles. If set up correctly now he will see how the spring/bars moves etc... Also have him read up on 4bar suspensions. Bar angle is what promotes things like roll steer, drive in and off, etc... Ask him what moving each bar up or down on right and left rear does. If he still argues, by all means try it.

[clbaker25x]

Unless he is footing the bill for a good part of your racing budget I would seriously consider changing crew people. Another option would be to send him to one of the suspension schools so he better understands 4/4 setups. If he has read any of the articles or done any research he should be able to understand these concepts. Poor crew advice will lead to consistent bad finishes and disappointment with a racing program.

[johnny v]

tell him to order some old dirt mod magazines and read the Mark Bush articles .... basic 4 link concepts can be found everywhere on the internet... Sounds like he is an old school leaf spring, 2 or 3 link guy who still thinks the stiffer spring gets the weight during transfer front to rear..... I read a Mark Bush article one time about a guy winning a feature with no LR spring in the car.... ask him about that....

[powerslide]

Try the 275-300 on a stop and go but don't mess w/ bar angles much. Compromise with him.

[let-r-eat]

Don't let all these magazine articles and such deter you from trying anything you feel may be necessary to meet driver or track needs.Words on paper don't win anything. There are lots of things that can work with the right driver/combination. Stuff that isn't in any books. IE. LR spring missing, LF wheel missing, etc.As far as the heavy spring on the spring behind setup, put it on there. I doubt they notice much difference.

[1Blacksheep]

OK settled . After the thrust angle of the bars on the LR reach a certain degree upward the car will climb on its own and don't give a Ratts Azz what spring is in there depending on the load that's on it to start with ! Now when you lift the throttle and drop off the bars it will give you some characteristics you may or may not like . The softer spring will be more forgiving thru both transitions .

[Lizardracing]

Everyone thought I was nuts to run a 400lbs RR spring on a three link B-Mod until I won with it. There are multiple ways to set up a race cars and win with any car/driver. Anyway, its important to remember you don't have to be faster than everyone, just faster than everyone who showed up that day.

[Dirtrunner35]

Was your rr spring on your trailing arm?

[Lizardracing]

No it was a lot of years ago now and it was a three link car. The track was stupid slick. Like taking on rubber during hot laps slick. Very large 4/10 mile very high banks. It required a lot trail braking to tighten on the throttle but entry was crazy. I basically kept it straight and drove it like a asphalt track.