small 1/4mile oval tips, transitioning from road racing

[rob burgoon]

Found another reason you say you are spinning, and no traction. By your photos of rear of car on scales
your rear tires are bald. lol

Well yeah, I mentioned that in the report after the test day. Dying tires explain mid-day changes toward oversteer. The handling issues were still happening with new rears before the more recent changes.

Test in two days. New rears going on, I'll drop the right side another inch to get it vaguely level, and check the front cross member height. If I have time I'll move the 30lbs of lead from the RR to the LR. (grr... it's welded in). Might add fuel or delete the extinguisher bottle or front bumper temporarily to get more weight aft.

In the meantime I'll start ordering rear suspension parts for some of the other changes.

[JustAddDirt]

BSB coil over eliminator (or slider) is what you need.
put coil on rear with the new BSB part
put shock on front of birdcage to control the compression and rebound of LR suspension.

Found another reason you say you are spinning, and no traction. By your photos of rear of car on scales
your rear tires are bald. lol
this is not pavment roundy round, it is dirt, need tread on tires. I also recall reading on one of your other posts that you quit testing because rear tires were cording. If you are running them that long, that they are showing cords, that is way too long. Rear tires should be new every couple races to be competitive. The G 60 tires you are running should last a good bit of runtime, but that is a extreme.

[Bcollins82]

Are dummy shocks legal in IMCA mods?

"One steel, nonadjustable, unaltered shock per wheel. All shocks must completely collapse at any time. One additional shock allowed
in pull-bar area. No external or internal bumpers or stops. No threaded body, front coil-over, air, or remote reservoir shocks. No Schrader or
bladder type valve allowed. Front half may be shielded. One or all shocks may be claimed per event for $50 each, counting as one claim on card,
following shock claim procedures (Refer to www.imca.com)."

Evidently not. Have to get a good quality slider. The cheap ones will bind up.

[rob burgoon]

3. On a spring behind 4bar LR your shock should be in front, with your spring in the rear on a slider or dummy shock. The way the birdcage indexes, you have very little control on the LR by having your shock behind.

Are dummy shocks legal in IMCA mods?

"One steel, nonadjustable, unaltered shock per wheel. All shocks must completely collapse at any time. One additional shock allowed
in pull-bar area. No external or internal bumpers or stops. No threaded body, front coil-over, air, or remote reservoir shocks. No Schrader or
bladder type valve allowed. Front half may be shielded. One or all shocks may be claimed per event for $50 each, counting as one claim on card,
following shock claim procedures (Refer to www.imca.com)."

[Bcollins82]

two words.... CAR WASH

Haha! X2 on that... go to home depot and buy you some zep industrial degreaser and give it a thorough wash. Then repeat every time you go to the track.... just dont put it on decals full strength! There is a reason you rarely see a dirty car go fast....

[save the racers]

two words.... CAR WASH

[Bcollins82]

Do these links work for you guys?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10417669_856734424345358_8166823757348273312_n.jpg?oh=fb8a93ff02bde789189fed3f42cb74f7&oe=5486A2F1&__gda__=1417899309_b13671b470f2024f128f48cd378db482

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/...d4&oe=548851DD

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10665206_856734937678640_4686451784472039031_n.jpg?oh=aab4c699fde3091d2d01eb116578b2ff&oe=5486F4DB&__gda__=1422974471_de1cf6a748c70390377d1a908ff6d11c

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10665870_856735147678619_1716563646366871995_n.jpg?oh=1438419420f0ff8b66ebcb20eb139226&oe=54A17DC4&__gda__=1419903256_e9fe56029505b1ff30e81f94d9b39157

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/...a6&oe=549228D0

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...e3ea9986bed568

Yeah, the links work fine. I'm not sure where to tell you to begin...

1. Ride heights are off by a mile. The RF is way too high. Reset them as I described, then re take pics up front.

2. It appears someone has added an underrail to the LR of your overrail car? From what I can see in the pictures, I believe you can just remove it...

3. On a spring behind 4bar LR your shock should be in front, with your spring in the rear on a slider or dummy shock. The way the birdcage indexes, you have very little control on the LR by having your shock behind.

4. Find someone that can rate your springs. I suspect the 850 you installed is giving up and that is why you couldn't tell a difference between it and a 650. Its old, and yellow. Those are 2 things you dont want to see with a spring. Buy quality springs when you purchase them. I prefer landrum, they don't seem to lose free height and come with a dyno sheet. But there are other good quality springs out there, like eibach.

5. You should be ready to fab LR upper shock mounts. Im not sure what kind of shaft will be showing after you reset ride heights, but what you have now looks to be too much even if you added an extension.

6. You should be a bit higher on left side and rear percentage IMO. 53.5 to 54 LS is what has worked well for me. You'll find people all over the place on rear, but you need to be at least 54 percent at a minimum. You just dont want to be bolting lead on farther back than the front of the fuel cell as a general rule. Getting rear percentage up by bolting weight on the back bumper will make your scale numbers look good, but the pendulum weight will make the car swing loose negating the effect.

7. Start talking to shock builders. Find one that is reputable, not a blowhard, and will help you with what you have instead of trying to sell you a new car. (Although, its not the worst idea at this point) I can't stress enough what the correct shocks will do to help a car IF everything else on it is correct. One piece that is bent or bound up and it doesn't matter what shocks are bolted on, you will struggle.

8. Adding a brake floater to the LR is pretty standard on this sort of setup. I would get with BSB and get one. Make the rod 2" longer than the LR upper.

9. Before you start, clean and grease everything, pull everything apart and be sure nothing is bound up, balljoints arent bent, heims are free, etc...

[rob burgoon]

setup pics

Do these links work for you guys?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10417669_856734424345358_8166823757348273312_n.jpg?oh=fb8a93ff02bde789189fed3f42cb74f7&oe=5486A2F1&__gda__=1417899309_b13671b470f2024f128f48cd378db482

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/...d4&oe=548851DD

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10665206_856734937678640_4686451784472039031_n.jpg?oh=aab4c699fde3091d2d01eb116578b2ff&oe=5486F4DB&__gda__=1422974471_de1cf6a748c70390377d1a908ff6d11c

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10665870_856735147678619_1716563646366871995_n.jpg?oh=1438419420f0ff8b66ebcb20eb139226&oe=54A17DC4&__gda__=1419903256_e9fe56029505b1ff30e81f94d9b39157

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/...a6&oe=549228D0

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10703992_856735414345259_3186601890131763825_n.jpg?oh=46ce3bdd723f6714f42223c8f871d927&oe=5485B61F&__gda__=1418715566_dc8c0c07d35f6d51f4e3ea9986bed568

[rob burgoon]

just happy to be talking chassis theory instead of gear ratios.... SMH... lmao!

That I agree with wholeheartedly.

[rob burgoon]

Nobody that I can tell suggested a 6.2 great ratio. That is in the ball park for an open. 5.43 or 5.67 would probably get you close.

probably needs to be a 6.00-6.20 rear end gear. (judging by videos)

JustAddDirt called for 6.0-6.2 and 6.2 is what's on my shelf.

[Bcollins82]

I agree BC82 there are so many set ups that work and don't work. I'm just sharing what has worked well at this particular track and I have found to be the most consistent. There isn't a magic set up but just from my experience seeing what's worked and hasn't worked I gave my input at this particular track.

More than one way to skin a cat... just happy to be talking chassis theory instead of gear ratios.... SMH... lmao!

[RRR_Products]

I agree BC82 there are so many set ups that work and don't work. I'm just sharing what has worked well at this particular track and I have found to be the most consistent. There isn't a magic set up but just from my experience seeing what's worked and hasn't worked I gave my input at this particular track.

[Bcollins82]

RRR, nobody was telling him to get down to a 500 RF? My experience with tacky tracks is that you can run a softer spring and a lot of rebound in the RF, keep it pinned over, maybe a bit less LR drop, and the car is more consistent and easier to drive. Obviously you cant leave all the rebound in it when it slicks off, and you have to add drop back, or you'll lose some drive, but by that time the softer RF is usually better, even by your words... the problem I see most with tacky tracks, cushions, and softer RF setups is guys not wanting to limit their LR drop and that causes bad inconsistency on tacky/rough tracks. We set a track record (still stands) at 12.8 on a 1/4 mile track. It was tacky, and crazy rough. We had a 550 RF spring in the car (metric clip though) and applied some of the principles I mentioned here. We were well over 100hp down on some of the big guys, but the car was extremely consistent and drove great on the cushion. Sorry, no data loggers.... only trial and mostly error experience.... lol

[RRR_Products]

Nobody that I can tell suggested a 6.2 great ratio. That is in the ball park for an open. 5.43 or 5.67 would probably get you close. Royce, I would hardly describe that track as a point and shoot. The corners are almost as long as the straights and there is no banking. Maintaining corner speed is the name of the game there.have you actually turned any laps there?

That track is when tacked up very much a point and shoot tacky and bottom feeder when dry. Why do you think the heavy rf sprung cars are dominating when tacked up? I also do driver coaching and have to study a drivers habits and why a car is handling the way it is. Whether coaching road course, asphalt circle track or dirt it is all applied the same. I ran a full season at Barona In a street stock winning a championship and record amount of wins. Since I've tested in others cars and found out what's worked best since it is one of my local tracks. I am a firm believer In finding more speed always and always open to suggestions but I always have any driver strive for perfection and the speed comes naturally.

[charcoal01]

Nobody that I can tell suggested a 6.2 great ratio. That is in the ball park for an open. 5.43 or 5.67 would probably get you close.

Royce, I would hardly describe that track as a point and shoot. The corners are almost as long as the straights and there is no banking. Maintaining corner speed is the name of the game there.have you actually turned any laps there?