Crate Motor Debate

[72Dubya]

I am running an all steel flat tappet 374 with a two barrel, and on the dyno (engine and chassis both) from 3000 rpm up to when the power drops off, the torque and HP curves were close to identical. It is a very smooth motor, and I have been running nothing but Hoosier H40 tires (hard as a rock compound) and have no problem hooking up on a slick track.

Smooth power can be made with a flat tappet, but it took a lot of homework from us and our builder.

That being said, I know a two barrel won't be as aggressive on acceleration as a four barrel, so this is just my .02 worth on the built motor situation.

[Duckhnter83]

I don't believe its a package deal completely I think first is stop over powering the track. What good is HP and torque when everything is spinning. Its all about building that big hp/tq motor and getting it to gradually apply that to the track

[jasjenh]

I am not saying it can't be done but we have built motors with similar hp and tq to the crate and they don't seem to work as good as the crate. I will never own a crate but I don't mind the challenge of beating them. same as the stoa motors they can be beat by a home built motor we do it all the time. The problem we run into at our track is it is 50/50 whether it is dry or heavy. So one night if you don't have 600hp you get lapped by lap 10 then the next night you only need 450hp. On heavy nights the crates are usually a 6th to 10th place car. For wins at our track it has been about 50/50 open vs crate. As for the smooth power from a flat tappet the dyno says it should be the same but the seat of the pants dyno says it is not the same.

[Excell Racing]

Karls Chevrolet builds crate killer motors out of Des Moines IA. They seem to be working good for them and are reasonably priced.
Quite a few years back I blew up my 350 and the only motor I had laying around was a 302 chevy. Won more money with that motor than any other including 377, 383, 406. Just geared the 302 deep and ran as much stagger as I could find . Hammer down. Sold the little thing and now I'm tempted to try it again.

[jasjenh]

We have built a few small cube short stroke motors over the years and they always worked pretty good. I even stroked a 305 for a hobby car to a 329 and it won and got claimed. ha ha. The fun for me is trying different stuff to see what works. You would be surprised at the stuff that works that other people say you are crazy to try.

[sirleafalot]

We have built a few small cube short stroke motors over the years and they always worked pretty good. I even stroked a 305 for a hobby car to a 329 and it won and got claimed. ha ha. The fun for me is trying different stuff to see what works. You would be surprised at the stuff that works that other people say you are crazy to try.

Brian at GRE is great and recently had a mention in speedway illustrated. GRE builds a crate killer cheaper, lighter and more hp... www.teamgre.net here a link on fb to the article in speedway illustrated. https://www.facebook.com/Teamgre/pho...type=1&theater Note this is a Ford deal and while its not for everyone, glad to see someone taking on the crates at a fair price.

[sirleafalot]

I'm getting really tired of hearing all these "crate killer" builds. Then I see every single one has a lighter rotating assembly. Sorry but maybe that's why the crate works as good as it does. Why don't they do some testing instead of looking at just HP and TQ to match a crate.

would you consider victories good enough for testing ? Or what is your standard ? Yeah there are a few crate killers out there but what do you expect the engine builders to do close up shop and start selling crates only ? GRE has a ton of victories to back it up, but hey if you are happy with the crate then keep buying them, there are some of us that are not interested in the crate.

[sirleafalot]

I am fully against the crate motor actually. I just get tired of seeing builders put together ONLY the same HP and TQ and they all did it with light rotating assemblies. What GRE does I don't know but I am 100% against the crate and the aspect of building a motor taken out if the equation.

gotcha, i know from talking to Brian/GRE his big deal was getting a smooth TQ curve to make this deal work against crates, and I know he has and still does a lot of dyno work to confirm this. We have one of his UMP motors and it indeed smooth and not volatile. Tough market right now, I do think that to compete against the crates, it has to be light, priced right and a smooth TQ curve, otherwise the crate is tough to compete against on the track and in the market place. IMCA seems determined to make the crates the order of the day, so I support anyone that is making an honest effort to compete against the crates.

[jasjenh]

Nice to hear someone else is trying a ford motor. A buddy of mine has been running some ford motors this year with good results. as to the lighter rotating assembly I have about half and half of heavy rotating and light rotating and don't see much difference in the two besides price. lol A little more throttle response with the light assembly. I think people make to much out of the entry into the corner from the crate. When I switch from the a-mod to the b-mod I always charge the corner harder because it seems like you are on the straight forever but the stopwatch says you go about the same speed.(in the feature) Its funny how years ago we built bigger and bigger motors to drag race on the straights, now the suspensions finally caught up and we can get rid of some power to go faster.