16 inch lr spring versus 20 inxh

[Matt49]

Given the same amount of weight transfer, you'll have more suspension travel with a softer spring. This is true on any corner of the car whether weight is being transferred to the spring or from the spring.
The softer LR provides more forward bite ONLY while the spring is unloading because it is increasing left side bar angle faster than a heavier spring would. Once the spring is unloaded and/or the chain catches, the spring isn't doing anything. You are officially "barred up" and the stiffness of that corner of the car is way beyond what the spring could ever provide as long as your right foot is working.
A driver good at trail braking could race a car with NO left rear spring on it and would probably be the fastest thing on the race track.

[hunterracing]

So let's take this scenario you say car is barred up and Dnt need spring if you keep car up now that bein said when you drop the left lower bar that does what load the spring correct? Which tightens on throttle and also takes steer out?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

So let's take this scenario you say car is barred up and Dnt need spring if you keep car up now that bein said when you drop the left lower bar that does what load the spring correct? Which tightens on throttle and also takes steer out?

When you drop the left lower bar, you decrease the wheel rate. It is the same as a softer spring.

[hunterracing]

But it takes steer out correct and how does is soften the spring? So if that's the case wouldn't you jst go ahead and soften the spring?

[a25rjr]

I'll attempt to explain part of my reasoning. Of the several drivers I have crew chiefed for, NONE have been able to keep the car on the bars at all times. There has always been 2-3 inches of spring compression past ride height. With that said, with the car on jack stands, on a short lr spring, and you let it down off the jack, you get that CLANG, when the spring hangs up momentarily on the upper seat. I know its instantaneous and ie believe it slightly disrupts the loading and ie traction of the lr. Can it be proven......don't know....it seems logical or its just one of my little quirks. I don't see how a spring flopping around could ever be a good thing.

[hunterracing]

You lost me on that one a25rj lol

[a25rjr]

You lost me on that one a25rj lol

LOL...I didn't proofread...see if it makes sense now.

[Matt49]

I'll attempt to explain part of my reasoning. Of the several drivers I have crew chiefed for, NONE have been able to keep the car on the bars at all times. There has always been 2-3 inches of spring compression past ride height. With that said, with the car on jack stands, on a short lr spring, and you let it down off the jack, you get that CLANG, when the spring hangs up momentarily on the upper seat. I know its instantaneous and ie believe it slightly disrupts the loading and ie traction of the lr. Can it be proven......don't know....it seems logical or its just one of my little quirks. I don't see how a spring flopping around could ever be a good thing.

I'm agree. Spring flopping around can't be good. Use these and you'll never have the CLANG problem again:

https://www.allstarperformance.com/product.htm?prod=750&part=ALL64201&add=no

We use one on the RR and one on the 5th coil. Yes your 5th coil will completely unload under deceleration and do this same CLANG thing on the race track. We finally noticed pretty severe wear on the coil-over adjuster nut that lead us to this conclusion but a Go-Pro would probably tell the tale. We don't use one on the LF because the spring is pre-loaded about 1/2 inch at full drop :-) That's another benefit of running a softer LR.
2-3 inches of LR spring compression past ride height under racing conditions should put that car straight into the wall. Not questioning what you're saying but are you sure that isn't from weaving around under caution to work the tires? The LR is the one shock that I never pay attention to the travel indicator for this reason.

[hunterracing]

How soft are you talking on lr there some say 175 is soft but goin to 150 or even 125 would be loaded so much even at full drop correct?

[a25rjr]

I'm agree. Spring flopping around can't be good. Use these and you'll never have the CLANG problem again:

https://www.allstarperformance.com/product.htm?prod=750&part=ALL64201&add=no

We use one on the RR and one on the 5th coil. Yes your 5th coil will completely unload under deceleration and do this same CLANG thing on the race track. We finally noticed pretty severe wear on the coil-over adjuster nut that lead us to this conclusion but a Go-Pro would probably tell the tale. We don't use one on the LF because the spring is pre-loaded about 1/2 inch at full drop :-) That's another benefit of running a softer LR.
2-3 inches of LR spring compression past ride height under racing conditions should put that car straight into the wall. Not questioning what you're saying but are you sure that isn't from weaving around under caution to work the tires? The LR is the one shock that I never pay attention to the travel indicator for this reason.

Aaahaa.....that will definitely fix the clang! We had a set on the last Rocket I crewed on but they weren't that long. Have they been out that long, I usually don't miss those type of things. My "library" stays up to date with the newest catalogs (its about kneehigh now,lol).

As far as the lr compression, you may be right. I guess I need to get the gopro hooked up. I haven't crew chiefed in year and a half, but I am in the middle of putting 2 cars together right now, a bwrc and a local built experimental car. It has a nascar style front end so we'll have to wait and see if it holds any promise.

[RaceMentally]

Longer spring same rate same darn thing. Longer spring less rate= car doesn't fall as easily, stays loaded, helps keep car on RF for corner entry blah blah blah. Throw a 125-150 on and keep 100-200lbs loaded at full hike and you're good to go. (Mic drop)

[Matt49]

Your a crew chief? Is that a paying position where you are?

As for the clang, zip tie the spring to the seat and it wont fall off and have to re seat itself. There should be no hang up. Sounds like your running lr spring and shock behind and a coil over kit on it? Ive never had a slider on the lr that would or could hang up on anything, whers or bsb.

Your 20 inch spring with the same rate on the lr will hang just as free as the shorter one did so it wont change your misfit of parts.

He's clearly talking about the UPPER seat "clanging". Obviously everybody wire ties their springs to the lower seat but if it comes off the upper, you're going to have this problem unless you use a take-up spring or something like the AllStar part that I linked him to.

[a25rjr]

Your a crew chief? Is that a paying position where you are?

As for the clang, zip tie the spring to the seat and it wont fall off and have to re seat itself. There should be no hang up. Sounds like your running lr spring and shock behind and a coil over kit on it? Ive never had a slider on the lr that would or could hang up on anything, whers or bsb.

Your 20 inch spring with the same rate on the lr will hang just as free as the shorter one did so it wont change your misfit of parts.

Please pm me your phone number so I can forward it to Mr. Link. Im sure he would like to discuss the $5000 set of shocks he sold me that you refer to as a "misfit of parts". Thank you.

[Matt49]

most people zip tie the spring on the RR to the cup on the TOP.. Its not needed by design on the LR because of the way most sliders are made. There are a few like allstar and afco with short upper spring cup seating areas and those need the spring zip tied to it and it runs smoothly up and down the slider shaft.. there would be no clang.

matt 49, Sorry bud this is the mod forum, you clearly don't know much about mods. a coil over slider protector isn't going to change much if anything on a lr slider, modifieds run 5 inch springs and most rules say one spring so no take up spring is allowed.

Everybody doesn't have that problem. To have that problem on the lr you would have to have over 2.5 of free hanging spring in your lr.

Now if he is running a coil over kit those do clunk on some because of the misfit around the shock eye nut, but most people run those on the rr like I already said in the post you quoted.

There have never been any clunks from free hanging springs on my car, its a matter of fitting your parts up right so when the upper spring cup on the rr goes to re seat it does so properly every single time. I modified my upper spring cups its not rocket science to figure out what is needed, to prevent the hang up.

Correct...not going to work on a slider...my bad.

[a25rjr]

712 867-5309

Im not sure why he would want to discuss anything with me, Ive never heard of him and could care less. Im more than positive by reading your posts on here its end user error on your part.

Again Ill ask is crew chief a paid position where you live? Where is that by the way?

Around me a lot of the top IMCA modified teams have paid crew chiefs and crew members.

There is no end user error on my part. I don't have those issues, been using longer springs and/or a stacked setup for several years. My post was sarcasm at its finest.

You let the cat out of the bag, when you admitted you don't know who Mr. Link is! I doubt there's very few racers who don't know who he is!