cam/idle ???

[pargalı]

super job. success in studies. Thank you for sharing.

[swaybar]

See heres the whole problem, When guys ask questions on the forum boards they need to tell you everything about the rules for the class.

The class he races in is a new class for 2011 and is called PURE STOCK. These cars are to be as stock as possable with a few exceptions and I mean very few. The Rule states the Engines must pull 18ins of vacuum at 800rpm/idle. The cams must idle smoothly like a stock cam would and can not have any lope. He was given a brake and told to take the cam he was running out of his engine and, because of the rules I could have D.Q.d him but I did not because it was very early in the season. Guess I should not have been a nice guy, that won't happen again. He races at the track Im the Tech Official at.

I am the Head Tech official at HPT.COM SPEEDWAY and HUMBOLDT SPEEDWAY in Kansas.

Carl Flower.

Mr. Flower, I actually got the same meaning from his explanation of the rule as I did from yours. I still don't like it. The rule is too difficult to enforce - too subjective. To say that a cam must idle smooth "like a stock cam would" is not definitive. If he passed the vacuum rule, be done with it. The type of exhaust system, mufflers, etc can make a motor sound completely different at idle. Leaving it up to the ears to decide just doesn't seem right.

[rubbinsracin]

Mr. Flower,

I do not race there or for that matter even from the area and not to question the rules, BUT if you are saying that they must idle like a "stock cam" would, why not require they run a cam from a list of 2 or 3 "stock style cams" that the track finds will "idle smoothly" within the engine package you allow which would take the subjectivity out of it. I mean you probably tell them all the things below:

1. what heads they have to run(limited to a few different castings im sure)
2. in which limits what valve size is allowed
3. what blocks you can run(im sure the is a cube rule)
4. you tell them what carb to run(probably limited to a few specific cabs or by CFM)
5. what intake probably a list of 2 or 3
6. im sure you limit the crank to a stock crank casting
7. probably have to be no dome pistons

why not just ask them to buy a crate? but then again that opens up another can of cheating worms.....

also can you DQ him if he finds a way to meet the rules you want (idles "smoothly" and pulls the required amount of vacuum) with the cam he currently has in it unless you require him to run a specific cam? i mean what track turns away cars? none that i know of in this economy............

ps there were some pretty loped out cam grinds back in the muscle car days. no race motor built of parts from that era and older are going to idle as smoothly as your 2011 Honda Accord....JMO though

[F22 RAPTOR]

My points exactly, you can get around vacuum rules, idle quality is subjective and effected by many factors. Give the cam specs you want followed, that is a hard and fast rule. While i commend y'all on trying to have and enforce an economy like class, they still require "Real" rules with "Real" tech, lope opinions I don't think are enforceably fair, because somebody will hit that just right cam combo and slide by time after time, while the honest guys bring up the rear. JMO

[stockcar5]

there is a section in speedway illustrated that hightlights a track dumb/stupid/funny rules...this belongs in there!!! what a retarded rule...lol.

[techracer44]

Ok guys, I hear what you are saying and yes there may be an area there where you might have a question in what the cam/lope should be or sound like. We can fix that when we update the rules for next year. That (the cam rule) will probably be the only thing that we will change wording on in that classes rules, other wise we won’t change anything else in the rules for that class.

The other track that I Tech at (HUMBOLDT SPEEDWAY) started the PURE STOCK class in 2010 as a new class and started with about 8 cars in the class and now in one years time has 20 cars each night in the class and still growing. Those guys and gals have had a great time racing in the class and love the cost it takes to build the cars and the affordability to be able to continue racing, other wise they might not be racing at all.

We are trying the same thing at (HPT) and so far its looking very good there too. One of the racers at HPT even told me he finally built a car that he has more money in the car then he does the engine and thanked me for making the class, other wise he would have to quit racing because the cost of building engines for the HOBBY STOCK type cars is out of control.

The whole problem with the poster "heneryss" on the topic is when in the tech area he was told to listen to the other 4 cars that were in tech area and listen to how the engines in there cars idle and how smooth the idle was in there cars engines, and he was told that is how we want yours to sound. IF everyone else under stands the cam rule they “the other drivers” did not see how come “heneryss” could not under stand also. So we made him change his cam, how can that be the wrong thing to do?

Now in “heneryss’ ” defense I will tell you all the kid can drive a race car and he does the homework needed to make his car fast and has won a lot of races. Now if he gets his car within the rules and I can’t find anything illegal on the car then I will back him up totally with no questions ask and tell the other drivers that they better do there home work next.

The thing I want to stress though is this, This is a PURE STOCK CLASS not a Hobby Stock type class, and I will do what ever I have to KEEP IT that way.

Stockcar5: I will ask you 1 question, Can you ever post a comment on this forum board where you don't EVER MAKE FUN OF WHAT SOMONE SAYS OR HAVE TO TELL EVERYONE HOW MUCH YOU THINK YOU KNOW ?

CARL FLOWER:

[F22 RAPTOR]

Ok guys, I hear what you are saying and yes there may be an area there where you might have a question in what the cam/lope should be or sound like. We can fix that when we update the rules for next year. That (the cam rule) will probably be the only thing that we will change wording on in that classes rules, other wise we won’t change anything else in the rules for that class.

The other track that I Tech at (HUMBOLDT SPEEDWAY) started the PURE STOCK class in 2010 as a new class and started with about 8 cars in the class and now in one years time has 20 cars each night in the class and still growing. Those guys and gals have had a great time racing in the class and love the cost it takes to build the cars and the affordability to be able to continue racing, other wise they might not be racing at all.

We are trying the same thing at (HPT) and so far its looking very good there too. One of the racers at HPT even told me he finally built a car that he has more money in the car then he does the engine and thanked me for making the class, other wise he would have to quit racing because the cost of building engines for the HOBBY STOCK type cars is out of control.

The whole problem with the poster "heneryss" on the topic is when in the tech area he was told to listen to the other 4 cars that were in tech area and listen to how the engines in there cars idle and how smooth the idle was in there cars engines, and he was told that is how we want yours to sound. IF everyone else under stands the cam rule they “the other drivers” did not see how come “heneryss” could not under stand also. So we made him change his cam, how can that be the wrong thing to do?

Now in “heneryss’ ” defense I will tell you all the kid can drive a race car and he does the homework needed to make his car fast and has won a lot of races. Now if he gets his car within the rules and I can’t find anything illegal on the car then I will back him up totally with no questions ask and tell the other drivers that they better do there home work next.

The thing I want to stress though is this, This is a PURE STOCK CLASS not a Hobby Stock type class, and I will do what ever I have to KEEP IT that way.

Stockcar5: I will ask you 1 question, Can you ever post a comment on this forum board where you don't EVER MAKE FUN OF WHAT SOMONE SAYS OR HAVE TO TELL EVERYONE HOW MUCH YOU THINK YOU KNOW ?

CARL FLOWER:

Agreed. Its good to hear from a tech person who honestly wants to be fair and do a good job. I also agree insults have no place in this discussion. Be well, good luck with the class.

[stockcar5]

yea i have many many times..you could answer your own quesion with a quick search.

even if i didnt it still doesnt make your rule a good one..still the dumbest one i've ever heard of! hopefully you change it for the racers sake.