No acceleration at all, but runs great?? At the end of my rope. .

[rodb63]

My EGT's ha ve been VERY hot, I have a guage to my Left front Cyl.
Its been 1400 deg, I got it down to just over 1350 last weekend so I think I'm getting that under control. a little.
I don't have a data collector, I should I know but pricy.
If you guys decide the best thing for me is Ti intake valves I'm spending 800.
I'd like to not get a data collector.
Last years engine showed HUGE amounts of valve pounding, could thids have something to do with EGT's. I"m always wondering if I'm jetted too high with fuel burning in the header or just lean.
With 6.5 power valves, I'm at 88 jets. Altitude 1000 feet or so.

[DaveBauerSS6]

If you guys decide the best thing for me is Ti intake valves I'm spending 800.

You'll just be burning more money.

A 580 lift cam with the correct spring will run fine in the 7000 rpm range with steel valves. If You want insurance and have money to spend, get the TI. The builder would have identified a problem on the dyno if something was wrong.You stated it was a pig from the builder.
Compare torque curves and consider that this is a boat. Tremendous drag needs torque. If the torque curve on the new motor is very steep it wont accelerate fast. It can be so steep that you may never feel the power at the top end, because you run out of track. Most dirt track guys complain that the motor pulls hard after the flag stand, same problem. Reducing the duration of the cam will correct this.
Bet you put that motor in a mustang with 4.11 gears and it will take your breath.

[DaveBauerSS6]

Torque curve

[rodb63]

Cam/ Dyno info here, (Not a boat), All out race, have all your info

Dyno and Cam info below
OK this is a Hydroplane, it is race only, full on race and requires a crane to get into the water. It rides on the water and air as a 3 point hydroplane, no drag believe me as it is on top of the water. I race circles with it, at sanctioned APBA races, google my name or see pictures on Face book its Rod Bourke not many of those. I hide nothing on FB so all pics should be there. OK my engine is VERY Similar to Late Model, but I"m required to have a 600 HP holley. I have dyno sheets, and a cam card with me now, I'll post some data here but I"ll gladly send the dyno info to anyone who e-mails me at
rodb63@yahoo.com
OK in 2003 I started, and this engine ROCKED and ROLLED all the way through the corners and through the shoots (3000 to 7800 rpm), went like a raped Ape, 351 N-headed Ford. In 2006 I reversed a water valve and COOKED the heads, big cracks through both so the only thing available at that time was RHS heads for me so I chose 200's. That was my first Dyno, 510 HP, have sheet. That 510 motor did not have the n-head power, but won a lot of races, OK N-heads came available in 08 so I had a 2nd engine built so 2 n-headed engines. One with new comp cam one with CLay smith cam that previously rocked as far as tq curve. The comp cam had about 20 more hp and tq all the way from 4000 rpm on up. BUT these engines would not push the boat at all, even now. It goes fast but with a tiny 20 inch pitch prop barely over 7000 rpm. Before I was getting a 22 inch pitch prop easiyl to 7800, and 8200 at the kilo records (Straights). So what you've read to now has been my issue since getting these 2 new n-heeaded engines going, I'm wearing them out with no get up and go, just some speed but getting left at the start finish like no tomorrow. The 22 inch pitch prop goes only to 6800 now, 1000 rpm off, and yes its a PIG. The cam is in it just like the dyno and when it ran great years ago.
As said before, its like my lash is too tight, but when I actually did that in 2005, the cam kicked in half way through the straights, now it never kicks in, just struggles to accelerate. All I can see is a little detonatin, and severe valve bounce, but can this valve bounce be all the way from 3000 on up? or is it only at high RPM? The springs are new, 180 spring pressure at seat. Comp calls for 170 tops.
Here you go, below;
4600 rpm 472 tq 413 hp
5000 rpm 493 tq 469 hp
5500 rpm 495 tq 519 hp
6000 rpm 474 tq 542 hp
6500 rpm 465 tq 575 hp
7000 rpm 437 tq 582 hp
7500 rpm 400 tq 571 hp
7700 rpm 389 tq 570 hp

Cam card. comp cam grind FW 6032 SN# L 4959-07
gross lift .600 both, lash .020 Dur at .050 = 270 / 270
lobe lift .375 Lobe Seperation 107
107 intake centerline

[SLM98]

Ever have trouble with the intake valve lash tightening up?

[rodb63]

Question, is there any way Valve lash can tighen up as much as .006, .008, .010 or more (?) while racing, and then come back to normal as engine cools? or as engine is now stopped?
Heat can change but only a few, and I compensate for .002, per you guys here.
Last week I set it at .024 (usually .022) and nothing, even at the end, this engine acts like the lash is .010 too tight, or more.

I"m praying to sove my issue, although I'm BEATING my intake seats to death at the moment, that can do it I know, but remember I have 2 twin engines that dynoed great, and neither accelerate in the hydroplane, not at all.

Thanks, it was brought up a day or 2 ago concerning sticky keepers, I"m checking the lash cold tonight, (should be cold 24).
Question, if by cam card I always adjust to .022, can I make it .026 or even 028 just to try it? What is too far?
Thanks for getting me thinking on this.

[SLM98]

This is a flat tappet cam?

[rodb63]

Yes, flat tappet.

[SLM98]

I had this happen, valve lash would tighten up .005 in a night of racing(80 laps). Tried more spring pressure which actually made it worse.Put coated valves in, that almost solved the problem down to .002 tighter. The problem was the intake lobes on the cam were too aggresive and the valve train was out of control.It would hit a certain rpm and wouldn't pull anymore.Lighter valves help this as well as a spring thats matched to the cam.Also don't trust Comp springs, they have changed manufacters of there springs, you may think you are getting the same spring but may be a different frecrency.

[rodb63]

SLM,
I'll be glad to buy a set of new Ti int valves, and pay for the correct seats, but I cannot get the least bit of assurance from my builder, my head guy, the Dyno guy or this board, including comp, Ferrea, Del west, that will say its even probably the solution.
This is why,
The engines (2) are dead from top to bottom acceleration wise, none. Was your engine lacking that the entire rpm band? Wouldnt these Ferrea valves be at least good to 4000? 5000? 6000?
Can someone say "Yes its possible to have the entire rpm band to be down on acceleration", but no one will, so no ti valves, my T&D rockers look great, could they really be slowing me down?
My cam card is a few posts back, was it close to yours as far as too aggressive?
Both engines dynoed well, I posted some Dyno data, same post as cam data.
No response, none, NADA. This and getting my F_____ ass kicked for over 2 GD seasons is why I'm offering money for help. I"ll pay, I sent $150 to Pat at Tech west racing for his help on this, he helped me find voltage drop and that added speed but accelleration is gone still. Money well spent as he gave me a lot of phone time trying to help. I paid Tom McCumber in Oregon $125 0r something like that for his time on the phone, well worth it, smart man and good ford guy but I'm still a pig. I have an engine guy and a head guy, the engine guy does not have a clue, he would be responsible for where the cam is. My head guy keeps fixiung my heads but now I can't get help from him, no response when I asked to look for valve bounce on the heads he has now, NADA, He is waiting for me to decide on Ti valves or not. Crap you think that dumb ass would know more than me. A head guy, I'm almost done with him. Do I go to a dyno again? A better one? The one I went to I don't think had all the data.
I guess I'm cursed and ready to calll it quits.
My lash is ok, although I think it was reduced some over time last year, but I only run about 15 min wide open a weekend,. I think it had to close some, I had sticky keepers, as one poster asked. You know, I had no idea about the tighter lash or keepers sticking, when It happened I never gave it a thought. You guys are teaching me but my Babble is getting long winded and I'm no closer.

QUESTION, does anyone know a FORD N-headed guru that I can PAY him to tAlk with me for an hour.
Sorry, frustrated, I'll stop. Go back, please get my e-mail and I'll stop wasting others time here.
I think people like you are awesome, trying to help, give me advice or their story (which is great) but it stops there, This started in Sept 08, Not a single race went but without me making a valid change, here I sit like a dumb ass.
Sorry guys, I'll try to hire someone to help.
I can't thank you all enough, love this board and the people!
Rod Bourke

[DaveBauerSS6]

Do you have the cam part number? The grind number isnt coming up in the search on Comp cams. The specs on a cam card dont tell you the profile. The cam/ grind number will.

Also do you have the HP/ TQ specs from the first motor?

[362CID]

RodB do you have the specs on all your clearences inside the engine, it sounds to me like either something is just too tight or the cam is just not right, I would be leaning toward changing the cam before i did anything else but thats just my opinion.

[bushracing67]

sounds to me like you have some pre-ignition issues, back the timing to about 28, what are you using for spark plugs ? you might be way too hot on plugs, on my n-head engine i use ngk 5674-8 @.035

what are you running for a cooling system ? fresh water or a sealed system ? pump, restrictor ? what water temp are you running at ?

[rodb63]

Answers for 3 posters, thank you.

Dave, 362cid & Bushracing67 (THANK YOU!!!)
Cam part number 35-000-5, AC Nutter chose this cam for me as he did the clay smith cam, and that Smith cam was a total rocket out of the corners and all down the straight, on the Dyno the Comp cam was about 20 more HP and TQ, I’ll post clay smith dyno data soon. I gave his name because he really knows this subject with respect to Hydroplanes, but now both cams are not doing it. Cam timing? We have checked over and over on that.

I only ran one engine all last year, 9 races totaling about 15 minutes wide open each weekend, that’s about it (4 heats each). The bearings were “like new” according to builder and that engine is in the boat now with an lower end having 2 seasons on it and a valve job after last year pounding on the seats terribly. Yes it sounds like its too tight somewhere, but it’s the same builder as when it went fast. Can it be tight and no wear showing? Boats need a bit more bearing clearances, he knows that but I don’t know what mine are. Should I call my builder and ask him? I thought that about the cam myself last year, we put back in the old Clay Smith cam (That cam had awesome acceleration) last year for 2 races, it had a total of .555 lift after lash, it was also dead, no acceleration at all. My apologies for not having that on the list, I thought it was. I even hogged out the shaft and mid strut bushings to a point where the inspectors told me to replace my bearings or I’ll pound them out. I said no, they are fine and if they pound out I’ll replace them as its not a safety issue at all, boats don’t go fast with a tight bushing around the shaft even though I had it that way first.
Cid I’ll think very hard about your note, really.

Bush, I have backed the timing all the way to 25, including 26 and 28. Looking at your plugs Bush you have the older heads that use the shorter spark plug reach? the heads I have need .908 reach, I’ve been using AR474, 473 a few times and B8EFS stock 1049 for a few times. NGK doesn’t have a race plug for this size, that’s why the B8EFS. Water is forced through the engine from the Lake/river, through a tube at the bottom of the rudder, cold. Not like a car at all. Most go IN at the water pump location and out at the heads, I just changed mine to go in at the Thermostat area and out the WP location. Both work fine for me, prefer the heads cooler and block warmer really. Water goes out between 180 and 185, I measure if just outside the block in a manifold I had made. water pressure is 30. I restrict it going in, (.185 hole) and out is at .200 or .215 .

I should probably only focus on what is wrong at this time, Valves are Pounding Hard on the seats, and signs of heat are in the intake ports , from valve bounce? Probably. Have a little detonation so I”ll go back to 27-28 timing or lower.

Question, can Valve bounce occur all the way down to 3000 RPM even with good springs?? I have ferrea hollow valves, and the cast iron seats in the head. (is this not a good combo?) When the boat was fast I only had Titanium valves, it never has accelerated at all with these Ferrea valves, not picking on them but I have to look at whats wrong. My head guy gave me an extra set of springs, said they are different because that’s all that comp cams had at that time, WTF??? I still can’t believe that.
Valve bounce is obviously a problem, Maybe if I fix that I’m fast again?

Comp cam
5000 rpm 493 tq 469 hp
5500 rpm 495 tq 519 hp
6000 rpm 474 tq 542 hp
6500 rpm 465 tq 575 hp
7000 rpm 437 tq 582 hp
7500 rpm 400 tq 571 hp

Older clay smith cam
5000 rpm 487 tq 463 hp
5500 rpm 485 tq 508 hp
6000 rpm 468 tq 534 hp
6500 rpm 447 tq 553 hp
7000 rpm 423 tq 564 hp
7500 rpm 386 tq 538 hp

[rodb63]

I have put water in both ways and both were equal, even when it was fast. I have to admit that I only dynoed with it going in the Water pump location, but yes I simulated the same cooling on dyno by using a hose/faucet and adjustable valve, .125 hole going out to get a 180 temp out.
Is it better for the head to get the warmest water or the block? I thought the block but I really don’t know. I want this right. Thanks. I like that you’re questioning which way my water direction is. A ford racer did reverse years ago and liked it (heads first) but he was old school, never dynoed.
One reason for going into heads first was I think they are hotter than normal. My oil has been 280 + degrees, that’s why I’ve been using Gibbs XP6. I have a marine oil cooler I plan to put in, that should cool it plus heat the water a tad maybe? (going in). I can’t get the cooler put in for this weekend. June 11-12 is next.