Thoughts on broken rod bolt

[Jet Jockey]

Hey guys I need your thoughts and opinions on my broken engine. I am not going to mention at this time who built it at this time but it was by a very reputable builder who does some of the best in the business. It is a 430 brodix block with Dart 13/11 heads. The engine arrived from freshening and the driver noticed a light oily/gummy substance in the #4 cylinder exhaust. He did not think a whole lot of it but it concerned him. After starting the engine, he noticed that the engine produced a very fine blue smoke mist out the exhaust. It continued to have this light smoke until it reached 600 laps when it came apart. We found the #4 cylinder rod bolt had broke. This was a Crower bolt that the engine builder recommended and installed. Have not taken the head off yet but there is aluminum shavings in the intake. My questions are: 1) Could the light/oily substance and blue smoke have contributed to the broken rod bolt? 2) This engine had brand new Diamond pistons installed and am curious if detenation from a localized hot spot on the piston top could have formed from improper preparation of the piston. 3) Has there been anyone else have problems with Crower rod bolts breaking? 4) Should I be pissed and request some financial assistance in the rebuilding of this engine. I am thinking at least some consideration on labor as well as possibly parts at cost. Needing at least two rods, a crank, a valve, and at least 4 pistons as that is how you have to buy them.
Thanks for reading.

[stockcar5]

sounds like its your baby now. you got a fresh motor with a problem but decided to run it 600 laps anyway. you should not have run it.

[Jet Jockey]

My thought was it should not have been shipped to me with a problem right off the dyno. The builder should have noticed a problem on the dyno as well as the oily substance in the exhaust port and repaired it if he believed it to be a problem.

[rubbinsracin]

im with stockcar5 on this one. if i got a motor from my builder and fired it up the first time and it was smoking, especially a pretty costly motor like you have descibed, whether faint smoke or heavy smoking, i would take it right back and see whats up. even if that means missing a weekend. looks like its yours now.

[glnrcg]

I had an engine with 325 laps that put a window in the block. I had complained quite a few times about the ammount of debris in the oberg and was continually told its fine. I even had the builder look at it at the track and was told it was fine. When he took it apart to look at it when it blew up he said it had debris go throught the bearings. I think the response from the builder is directly related to the ammount of money he thinks you have. If my engine builder would have took his head out of the **** of the people he thinks he can get more money out of maybe he would have realized I had a problem.

Maybe we had the same builder. LOL.

P.S . looking for new builder that apreciates the common weekly racer.....

[stock car driver]

Hey guys I need your thoughts and opinions on my broken engine. I am not going to mention at this time who built it at this time but it was by a very reputable builder who does some of the best in the business. It is a 430 brodix block with Dart 13/11 heads. The engine arrived from freshening and the driver noticed a light oily/gummy substance in the #4 cylinder exhaust. He did not think a whole lot of it but it concerned him. After starting the engine, he noticed that the engine produced a very fine blue smoke mist out the exhaust. It continued to have this light smoke until it reached 600 laps when it came apart. We found the #4 cylinder rod bolt had broke. This was a Crower bolt that the engine builder recommended and installed. Have not taken the head off yet but there is aluminum shavings in the intake. My questions are: 1) Could the light/oily substance and blue smoke have contributed to the broken rod bolt? 2) This engine had brand new Diamond pistons installed and am curious if detenation from a localized hot spot on the piston top could have formed from improper preparation of the piston. 3) Has there been anyone else have problems with Crower rod bolts breaking? 4) Should I be pissed and request some financial assistance in the rebuilding of this engine. I am thinking at least some consideration on labor as well as possibly parts at cost. Needing at least two rods, a crank, a valve, and at least 4 pistons as that is how you have to buy them.
Thanks for reading.

If you get a builder to warranty any portion of that and post his name on here he will be very very busy...

smoke out the exh has nothing to do with a broken rod bolt after 600 laps, around here thats a good 18-20 nights of racing which is a season for most guys

[parrot69777]

I normally stand behind my work 100% for a couple nights. After that .... not gonna say I don't help the guy out but it gets less and less as the nights on the engine increase.

600 laps around here is almost a full season at one of our tracks.

[hucktyson]

How on earth can an engine builder guarantee his work, when he doesnt control,

1. how your oiling system is routed and installed
2. what type of oil you use and maintaining oil level
3. what type of fuel you use and how clean and fresh it is
4. if you run a rev limiter or not
5. if you run the motor hot or not
6. if you check your time and your msd polarity or not
7. how often you check your valve lash and spring pressures
8. how vigalent you are to make sure the motor isnt sucking dirt through/ past the air cleaner
9. what type of filer and oberg screen you use
10. how good of a dry sump pump you use.

I was really blown away by how specific Jack Cornett was about everyone of those details, and i payed attention and did every single thing exactly how he said and as a result i havent had a single issue or a speck of anything in my oberg. I dont care who builds the motor and what parts they use the thing is going to blow apart if you dont pay attention to every one of those details. I have seen many many big name engines with holes in the oil pan and within 30 seconds of looking at the car you can find 4 or 5 things that contributed to the failure. Those engine builders know what they are doing but the racer doesnt always

[dave41]

rod bolts

oil mist or smoke has nothing to do with rod bolt .my thought is timing ,to many kick backs on startup's.

[coleman63]

I would think that if it was on the dyno he would not have been able to see any smoke since I'm pretty sure most dynos go straight from the headers to exhaust ventilation hoses to get the exhaust out of the building. All engine builders are going to have a problem from time to time with a motor, and cannot control the parts that are put in per say since there can be defects in workmanship you cannot test or see.
My next question would be (as has happened to me before) was number 4 even firing and that could explain your smoke mist and residue. Which would lead to my next question. Was motor dynoed with your distributor, MSD, plugs, and plug wires? Run a motor on 7 cylinders long enough under full race conditions and somethings bound to break in my opinion.
HOWEVER, if you knew from day one that something was amiss and made the conscious decision to run it anyways, and not just for a night, but for 600 laps...This ones on you, since you also stated builder was concerned about it.

[Jet Jockey]

Thanks for all your reply's guys. It gives me a lot of insight on what kind of conversation I can have with the engine builder. To answer a couple of questions, this engine was on the dyno with the same msd, wires, and plugs. Other than the two problems I already mentioned, the driver said the engine felt good and he had no issues with the performance. The engine is back at the engine builders and he will have a tear down report this week. If there is any interest, I will post on the outcome.
Once again, I appreciate the responses. It sounds like the general consensus is that these things happen, accept it and move on. Sounds like good advice.

[fast_crew]

Besure to ask your engine builder to use a stretch gauge on your rod bolts this time.

[Graff Spee]

I think what it comes down to, is that any thing can happen at any time and for no apparent reason! I think its Murphy's law! I am sorry that you had this problem. You are not alone.

[joedoozer]

I heard back from my engine builder and at this time I am proud to say that it is Ronnie Willkomm with R.E.D. He sent the crankshaft, rods, and bolts back to Crower for evaluation. Crower was able to confirm that the reason the rod bolt broke is because the rod bolt was manufactured with too small of a head which decreased the amount of surface area contact with the rod cap. Crower did not realize they had the problem. Both Crower and R.E.D. are making this right to my satisfaction. It is a pleasure to work with R.E.D. as my engine builder. Both companies could have played the blame game. Fortunately, they were more interested in what caused the bolt to break and taking care of the customer (now client).

Wow that is nice to hear. It seems these days more and more companies do the blame game. Nice to see things handled like this.

[lazermod3]

sounds like you had an issue with that cyl. from the start. keep in mind any oil bypassing the rings will cause detonation reguardless of your oct. or timming. if there was an issue with that cyl where lets say someone missed a ring gap and assembled the engine this preasure can surely cause and issue with the rod bolts. best thing when you spend money with a motor builder is the instant you notice a problem have them go through it imeadiately. oil or any substance in the exhaust ,smoke ect. is a problem that can be solved before you cause major damage.

sorry for your loss