Fouling Plugs

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  • joedoozer
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2009
    • 745

    #1

    Fouling Plugs

    I am wet fouling plugs, and feel like I am chasing my tail. So here is what I have.

    The motor is a SBC, flat top pistons with 2 reliefs. Zero deck with World Product Sportsman II heads, a rough estimate of 9.5 to 1. Carb is a Holley 3310, with no secondary jet plate, running 69's in the primary. MSD ignition with AR133 plugs, running on 93 octane pump gas. Total advance is 34*.

    This is a new short block from last year. The top end of the motor is the same as I had last year. The newer motor has a slightly more aggressive cam. During break in it seemed to run fine, I thought I could hear an occasional misfire. After changing the oil and filter, I pulled the plugs.

    Not much carbon, the color looked ok. But the plug was wet, the liquid looked like you dunked it in Pepsi. It did not appear to be oil, because it stunk like fuel and the motor does not smoke at all. Although the plugs were a little sticky. Also the entire plug wasn't soaked, just sorted of "misted" on there.

    My first thought was plugs were to cold. I stepped up to AR134's but the misfiring appeared worse. So I went back to a new set of AR133's and stepped the jets down from 76's to 74's. Ran it another 20 minutes, did a good shut down and pulled the plugs to check them. Same thing; wet and sticky. I kept repeating this process of stepping down jet sizes until I got to the 69's that are in there now. And again no change. I know the 69's are too lean but I was hoping to get to a point where I would see a change on the plug.

    Here are some things I do know to be good. Header temps range from 550 to 750 depending on what cylinders they are. Ignition system gives me a nice sharp snapping blue spark. The power valve is not blown; I turned the idle screws in and it stalled. My idle mixture screws are set at 1 1/4 turns, this gives me the highest vacuum reading at 15 psi. It seems a little on the low side so I think I might be a smidge too advanced with the timing.

    Am I missing something that is probably right in front of my nose? Is it possible that the rings are not seated, have absolutely no smoke at any time, and still oil foul a plug? Also running it in the shop at 3,000 rpm I can not get the water temp over 145 degrees. Is it possible the engine is too cold? Working on the car again tonight, and I think it is just a combination of fuel mixture, timing, and engine temp I have to get sorted out. But I will be picking up a leak down tester Saturday morning if I can't get it ironed out tonight. To rule out rings not broke in, and valves not seating. I really don't think it's internal because I have no smoke, there is no popping in the carb, and the header temps are not high. So I am not leaking any combustion out an unseated valve. And the motor does sound healthy, except for the loading up and fouling plugs problem haha.
    Crew Chief "Tip of the day":
    Most handling problems can be solved by adjusting the screw-ball. It can be difficult to fine tune at times. Explaining yourself loudly and striking it on top of the helmet with a dead blow hammer usually works well.
  • fast_crew
    Senior Member
    • May 2007
    • 844

    #2
    Have you put a load on the engine at all yet? May have to put a load on it to get the rings to seat, depending on the cylinder wall finish, or trueness. Float level isn't too high? May want more timing try 36* Just some ideas
    Josh K.

    Comment

    • joedoozer
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2009
      • 745

      #3
      Haven't put a load on the car yet. I am in the middle of the city. Cops might not find it funny to see me ripping down main street haha. I believe the float level is correct. I have the car on stands (level) and its just below the hole. But I will check it again. I have changed jets several times, its possible something was "bumped".

      I was afraid I would have to load the motor, I just don't like the idea of going to the track 1 week before the season starts with an engine that isn't running right. I would hope to rule everything else out by then.

      I am going to put some cardboard in front of the radiator tonight to try and get the temp up. I think that is my biggest problem right now, it's just not warm enough. Recheck the timing and do a plug reading. I prop the throttle open so it runs steady at 3000 rpm. I assume this is fast enough to give me a decent plug reading when I shut it off.

      Thanks for the help.
      Last edited by joedoozer; 02-04-2011, 11:11 AM.
      Crew Chief "Tip of the day":
      Most handling problems can be solved by adjusting the screw-ball. It can be difficult to fine tune at times. Explaining yourself loudly and striking it on top of the helmet with a dead blow hammer usually works well.

      Comment

      • parrot69777
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2007
        • 981

        #4
        Is it running on new fuel....or stuff from last year?
        JD's Performance
        13034 Hwy 99
        Wapello, IA 52653
        319-931-0677

        Comment

        • joedoozer
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2009
          • 745

          #5
          Originally posted by parrot69777 View Post
          Is it running on new fuel....or stuff from last year?
          Oh no. it's brand new fuel. As soon as our season ended I drained the tank, carb and lines. And then dumped all the fuel in my truck haha. The specific gravity of the fuel is .760 if anyone weighs their fuel and wondered.
          Crew Chief "Tip of the day":
          Most handling problems can be solved by adjusting the screw-ball. It can be difficult to fine tune at times. Explaining yourself loudly and striking it on top of the helmet with a dead blow hammer usually works well.

          Comment

          • parrot69777
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2007
            • 981

            #6
            I am sure someone will argue this....but I don't think you will get a good reading by just sitting in the garage. I also think with that low of compression....I would be using the 134's. Also outside air temp and not being able to get it over 145 degrees could be a big factor as well.
            JD's Performance
            13034 Hwy 99
            Wapello, IA 52653
            319-931-0677

            Comment

            • joedoozer
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2009
              • 745

              #7
              Thanks for the advice everyone. All kind of backing up what I had been thinking the entire time. But when things aren't running right it's good to hear that you aren't too far off.

              parrot: I had 134's in it for a 20 minute "stint", and it appeared to be worse. That being said, I am not in the ideal testing environment either. So under load and up to temp you are probably right; 134's being the best heat range. That was my first idea was to jump up a heat range. I will be throwing a thermostat in it tonight, and blocking the radiator off with some cardboard. I have a really good fan and shroud in it, Georgia summers haha.

              Living_Truth: When I first fire the car it does lag for a second on the first "punch" of throttle. If I bring the RPM up to around 3500 and accelerate from there to 5500 or so, it does well. I can still hear a miss, but that is probably caused by it not being up to temp. After its cleaned out by doing that, it does accelerate off idle without any problems (except for the occasional miss). If I let it idle for more than 30 seconds, it obviously loads up; and then stumbles a little until it clears out again. Also I am running 93 octane pump gas. And haven't had an issue running it up to this point. It is new fuel, bought just a few days ago.

              I just want to make sure I am not missing anything, over looking anything before I take a car to the track that doesn't run right in the garage.
              Crew Chief "Tip of the day":
              Most handling problems can be solved by adjusting the screw-ball. It can be difficult to fine tune at times. Explaining yourself loudly and striking it on top of the helmet with a dead blow hammer usually works well.

              Comment

              • sj valley dave
                Senior Member
                • May 2007
                • 1016

                #8
                Get some cardboard and get the engine up to 200* and then check your readings...

                Comment

                • joedoozer
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2009
                  • 745

                  #9
                  Originally posted by sj valley dave View Post
                  Get some cardboard and get the engine up to 200* and then check your readings...
                  Yup, and I am going to yank out the 69's I have in the primary and put 72's in. I know I shouldn't change more than 1 thing at a time, but I think the 69's are way to lean.
                  Crew Chief "Tip of the day":
                  Most handling problems can be solved by adjusting the screw-ball. It can be difficult to fine tune at times. Explaining yourself loudly and striking it on top of the helmet with a dead blow hammer usually works well.

                  Comment

                  • stock car driver
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2007
                    • 3233

                    #10
                    You cant jet a motor in a garage. Quit messing with it and get it on a chassis dyno and tune it.

                    5500 with no load is just asking to ruin parts. I use a winch to load my car and to pull my car in the shop. I save my motors wear and tear for at the track where I can win something. I think I have started it at home between races maybe 5 times in the last 2 years.

                    Comment

                    • joedoozer
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2009
                      • 745

                      #11
                      Stockcar please save your breath, I really don't care what you do or how much you have won. Whether you are right, wrong, or speaking chinese you come off like an ass. Not sure if you do it on purpose or what, but save your info for someone else please.

                      I wasn't trying to dyno the car on jackstands in the garage. I am not screaming the motor with no load for 5 mintues. I am trying to get it in the ballpark so it's at least drivable when I show up at the track. I winch my car on the trailer and push it in the shop too. I don't have a crew, it's just me. I go to the track by myself, and do it all by myself. So occasionally I need to bounce ideas of someone other than my wife.

                      Thank you everyone else for your input.
                      Crew Chief "Tip of the day":
                      Most handling problems can be solved by adjusting the screw-ball. It can be difficult to fine tune at times. Explaining yourself loudly and striking it on top of the helmet with a dead blow hammer usually works well.

                      Comment

                      • crc stock
                        Junior Member
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 5

                        #12
                        Locking your distributor if not already done will let you adjust your butterflies so it is not running of your main circuit. Just guessing you dont have it locked since u said 34 total advance. good luck

                        Comment

                        • ToddSmith16
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2007
                          • 2854

                          #13
                          Fouling plugs from an idle is a given! Need to put motor under load at a play day or hotlaps to get the real reading on the plugs!!!!

                          Comment

                          • joedoozer
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2009
                            • 745

                            #14
                            Changed jets to 72's, set timing to 36 full advance. Threw a thermostat in it, cardboard in front of the radiator. Got it up to temp. Plugs look better, so its ready to go.
                            Crew Chief "Tip of the day":
                            Most handling problems can be solved by adjusting the screw-ball. It can be difficult to fine tune at times. Explaining yourself loudly and striking it on top of the helmet with a dead blow hammer usually works well.

                            Comment

                            • stock car driver
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 3233

                              #15
                              Originally posted by joedoozer View Post
                              Stockcar please save your breath, I really don't care what you do or how much you have won. Whether you are right, wrong, or speaking chinese you come off like an ass. Not sure if you do it on purpose or what, but save your info for someone else please.

                              I wasn't trying to dyno the car on jackstands in the garage. I am not screaming the motor with no load for 5 mintues. I am trying to get it in the ballpark so it's at least drivable when I show up at the track. I winch my car on the trailer and push it in the shop too. I don't have a crew, it's just me. I go to the track by myself, and do it all by myself. So occasionally I need to bounce ideas of someone other than my wife.

                              Thank you everyone else for your input.
                              I go racing by myself also... you cant get in the ball park free reving your motor in the shop.

                              But to each his own.

                              If I sound like an ass its because your a dumb ass most likely and dont like anyone to tell you the plain simple obvious truth... you want morons to reply that are as dumb as you.

                              Comment

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