Deploy the National Guard!

[Tyy7777]

So the Orange Man (who seems to be in rather poor health) has announced he'll deploy the national guard to Chicago and possibly Baltimore.

I'm sure it's just a complete coincidence that these are blue states.

Why isn't Trump going after red state? Only 1 state out of the top 10 for Homicide Rate is a Blue state.



I'll give you a hint: he's full of (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) and he's persecuting political opponents.

[lurker]

TY, you missed my response to you in your other thread.

[lurker]

So the Orange Man (who seems to be in rather poor health) has announced he'll deploy the national guard to Chicago —--------

Chicago needs some type of better <more> policing, National Guard or otherwise, that’s from what I see and read online —--- according to residents of the city.

[lurker]

Maybe this is why?

58 shot over Labor Day weekend in Chicago as governor rejects Trump threat to send National Guard - https://abcnews.go.com/US/58-shot-weekend-chicago-governor-rejects-trumps-threat/story?id=125134744

[lurker]

Former Chicago police official says Democrats are 'afraid' a Trump crime crackdown in the city would work - https://www.foxnews.com/media/former-chicago-police-official-says-democrats-afraid-trump-crime-crackdown-city-would-work

[Morgs153]

I've referenced Chicago crime statistics before in a previous thread. It is an easy lookup for anyone interested to go the website heyjack@ss (but you'll actually have to use the "a" and not the @) .com .

Your argument about red states falls flat. All red states have blue cities. These are blue cities that have been blue cities for a long long time. Is Tennessee a red state? Sure it is. Is Memphis a blue city and has it been for a long time? Yes, it has. Would you care to live in Memphis? Maybe the good part. Is Wisconsin rural red? Yup. Is Milwaukee blue? It sure is, and it is the most unsafe city in Wisconsin. The suburbs are fine but Milwaukee itself, you can have it. The crime of the cities is not the fault of the states, it is the decisions of what the city leadership has decided they want to live with and tolerate but it is their residents who get stuck with those decisions because the leadership doesn't live in those areas. Often that is a bad decision like no cash bail, catch and release, or placing high dollar thresholds on what is a misdemeanor crime. You know what one of the first crimes to get bargained away in a plea deal in Milwaukee is? Felon in possession of firearm. So much for wanting to end gun violence right? Poverty is not a cause of crime, it is a symptom of it, especially when property values plummet and businesses pick up and leave. The poor and underserved become even more so.

Getting back to Chicago as an example of this. They had a contract with Shot Spotter technologies. Brandon Johnson ended that contract. It was working, but it was working too well. Shot Spotter allowed the police to quickly identify and respond to locations of shots fired. It was effective but often came up with uncomfortable results when the offenders were identified, or the neighborhoods were located.

I don't want National Guard doing policing. It is not their role. But the National Guard can help with general security in places which will assist the local police in doing their job safely and effectively and allowing good citizens to walk the streets again without fear, send their kids to school, safely ride public transit, or simply walk to the market. Protecting citizens from force and fraud is one of the most basic roles of government enforcement authority when used correctly. Those cities having been failing in that role.

[Tyy7777]

I've referenced Chicago crime statistics before in a previous thread. It is an easy lookup for anyone interested to go the website heyjack@ss (but you'll actually have to use the "a" and not the @) .com .

Your argument about red states falls flat. All red states have blue cities. These are blue cities that have been blue cities for a long long time. Is Tennessee a red state? Sure it is. Is Memphis a blue city and has it been for a long time? Yes, it has. Would you care to live in Memphis? Maybe the good part. Is Wisconsin rural red? Yup. Is Milwaukee blue? It sure is, and it is the most unsafe city in Wisconsin. The suburbs are fine but Milwaukee itself, you can have it. The crime of the cities is not the fault of the states, it is the decisions of what the city leadership has decided they want to live with and tolerate but it is their residents who get stuck with those decisions because the leadership doesn't live in those areas. Often that is a bad decision like no cash bail, catch and release, or placing high dollar thresholds on what is a misdemeanor crime. You know what one of the first crimes to get bargained away in a plea deal in Milwaukee is? Felon in possession of firearm. So much for wanting to end gun violence right? Poverty is not a cause of crime, it is a symptom of it, especially when property values plummet and businesses pick up and leave. The poor and underserved become even more so.

Getting back to Chicago as an example of this. They had a contract with Shot Spotter technologies. Brandon Johnson ended that contract. It was working, but it was working too well. Shot Spotter allowed the police to quickly identify and respond to locations of shots fired. It was effective but often came up with uncomfortable results when the offenders were identified, or the neighborhoods were located.

I don't want National Guard doing policing. It is not their role. But the National Guard can help with general security in places which will assist the local police in doing their job safely and effectively and allowing good citizens to walk the streets again without fear, send their kids to school, safely ride public transit, or simply walk to the market. Protecting citizens from force and fraud is one of the most basic roles of government enforcement authority when used correctly. Those cities having been failing in that role.

If you've referenced Chicago stats before, that's good. You'll know that Chicago sits 92nd among all US cities for Violent Crime.

As for the states thing, of course it's not that simple. But ole Donnie has a simple mind. It's no coincidence that the two cities he is going after reside in states governed by front-running candidates for the next election.

Mayors and DAs have a greater impact on day-to-day numbers the state is typically responsible for the overall structural aspects of the justice system.

Now you bring up Milwaukee and the possession thing. Like all things, it isn't really a simple matter. Under Republican legislature, Wisconsin abolished sentencing guidelines over 10 years ago now. That creates a situation where plea deals are more likely to be taken. Wisconsin also has a really bad backlog of criminal cases. Wanna know why? Lack of funding. The Republican legislature have constantly blocked this.

Poverty is a pre-cursor to crime. This is well known.

Shotspotter was not working well at all. It DID improve detection but it didn't result in any benefit. Crime rates remained the same. “Gun violence did not reduce in either (Kansas City or Chicago) following the introduction of ShotSpotter, and shootings were not anymore likely to be solved in either city,” Northeastern professor Eric Piza says.

[Tyy7777]

Chicago is fine. Like every city, it has it's bad areas.

I've been for an extended period of time and I enjoyed it and I felt safe. Most cities are.

[Morgs153]

Wisconsin's Truth In Sentencing law was passed in 1998, not ten years ago. It was a bi-partisan legislative effort and it was supported by then Attorney General Jim Doyle, who later became governor as a Democrat. I worked in the Wisconsin criminal justice system from 1988-2018. Plea bargains happened all the way through and the alternative to incarceration crowd is a alive and well. TIS has created more demand for prison space because of the sentencing guidelines mandating minimum times inmates must serve so prison census numbers have gone up because of it. That has been the main driver in budget stress regarding prisons.

Trusting a blue city on their own uniform crime reporting (UCR) has been proven to be very problematic and inaccurate.

https://cwbchicago.com/brandons-bodies

If poverty is the pre-cursor to crime, how come the United States didn't widely and overwhelmingly turn to crime during the Great Depression? I've dealt with a lot of poor people through the years who had self-respect, honor, dignity, and self-control. They didn't abandon all that because of economic status. I did however work for my first six years in a community which later seen an increase in their crime numbers and housing prices dramatically fell as good people escaped that community.

[Tyy7777]

Wisconsin's Truth In Sentencing law was passed in 1998, not ten years ago. It was a bi-partisan legislative effort and it was supported by then Attorney General Jim Doyle, who later became governor as a Democrat. I worked in the Wisconsin criminal justice system from 1988-2018. Plea bargains happened all the way through and the alternative to incarceration crowd is a alive and well. TIS has created more demand for prison space because of the sentencing guidelines mandating minimum times inmates must serve so prison census numbers have gone up because of it. That has been the main driver in budget stress regarding prisons.

Trusting a blue city on their own uniform crime reporting (UCR) has been proven to be very problematic and inaccurate.

https://cwbchicago.com/brandons-bodies

If poverty is the pre-cursor to crime, how come the United States didn't widely and overwhelmingly turn to crime during the Great Depression? I've dealt with a lot of poor people through the years who had self-respect, honor, dignity, and self-control. They didn't abandon all that because of economic status. I did however work for my first six years in a community which later seen an increase in their crime numbers and housing prices dramatically fell as good people escaped that community.

I wasn't talking about the Truth In Sentencing Law. I got the specifics of what I was talking about mixed up with another state, but Wisconsin removed the sentencing commission in 2007 under a Republican Assembly.

I can't blame blue cities for underreporting. Look at the way Fox News carries on about cities that are largely fine.

Because solely poverty doesn't cause crime necessarily. It's when it's combined with lack of opportunity, social injustice and weak institutions etc.