Detroit and it's emergency manager!!

[Clayton_Wetter]

There are lots of construction unions, electrical unions Millwright and steelworkers unions that serve their membership and employers very well. Sure some unions have overreached, just as some employers have. You like to point out the over paid floor sweeper, but who is over paid and who is underpaid? The non union employee is loosing ground to inflation, while their employers are gaining ground. The union employee is holding their ground. That makes most rational people believe the non union floor sweeper is under paid instead of the union sweeper being over paid. This wage to cost of living equation has been a struggle since the mid 1800s. The days of the Robber Barons. I'm sure the unions or big business can be too powerful, but the most prosperous times for all is when there is a balance. Even some aspects of Socialism are not all bad. If no one is fighting for your side, you have no fight.

As it is now, with the weakening of unions and socialism, the middle class is dwindling and much of the middle class is denouncing their representatives. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. The bad guy is government intervention enabling cheap abundant labor. Allowing business to do business here and not pay tax or even bring profits back to keep the economy going. Turning a blind eye to illegal immigration, Expanding legal immigration, Outsourcing creating high unemployment, but not paying the bill for the loss. All of these things create high unemployment. As long as there is high unemployment, you just aren't worth much. Some say, I have a job, It don't bother me. How come these high gas prices hurt? How come these high food prices hurt? how come these higher taxes that are coming hurt? If half the people here can't afford to pay tax and the big business won't pay tax, who does that leave? It leaves the guy that don't have a lobby representing him. That would be the working middle class. It's always been that way.

What I'm saying is a lot of people don't know who their friend is and who means them harm, intentionally or not.

If it wasn't for the Unions, your kids would be working 16 hour days to help support the family. You can see this by how many working couples there are that have trouble making ends meet now. There is nothing to stand in the way of it reverting back to that. You and I have been put on a level playing field with the poor worker of India, China, South America or Mexico. How do you think that is going to go for you? We used to make our own, support our own and take care of our own. We now just take care of big business. If that was Socialism it was a good life in the 40s,50s, 60s, 70s. and most people want more of it. It didn't take anything away from the rich. It actually made it possible for them to get richer. There where more consumers.

Unions have caused prices to skyrocket from their own greediness and abuse of industries and businesses. The prices brought on by union make it much harder for the common or poor citizen to afford products. Many union practices have held up actual work, employment, and the rights of those who are non union workers. This is a form of Communistic control and is fully supported by the Democratic party for their union support and votes. Unions are directly responsible for running industry in the ground and out of the country.

[Bubstr]

Unions have caused prices to skyrocket from their own greediness and abuse of industries and businesses. The prices brought on by union make it much harder for the common or poor citizen to afford products. Many union practices have held up actual work, employment, and the rights of those who are non union workers. This is a form of Communistic control and is fully supported by the Democratic party for their union support and votes. Unions are directly responsible for running industry in the ground and out of the country.

It is no coincidence that Unions worked perfectly fine for over 70 years and didn't drive industry out of the country, until it was enabled by government. Unions didn't raise prices, inflation made prices go up. the only thing unions where guilty of was keeping up with inflation, while the non union sector fell behind. You can see the greedy ones are big corporations. Their profits are going up as the average middle class is staying the same or loosing ground to inflation numbers.

May be Unions shouldn't be political, but The supreme court decided that corporations are people and can donate and lobby the government. Do you really think they are lobbying on your behalf? At least the Unions had similar goals. The welfare of the working man.

Unions are approximately 7% of the work force and still this small segment is blamed for all the woes of the economy. Your looking at the wrong boogieman. The welfare of the middle class is in trouble and Crony Capitalism is the real boogieman. And both democrats and republican participate in Crony Capitalism.

[Clayton_Wetter]

For being in bed with the Progressives I do still blame big unions totally. The Progressives are also responsible for this "Crony" capitalism. The free market system and pure capitalism is under full assault by the Progressives who want the change it in order to destroy it or redefine it. Just like all of the other things that that are trying to redefine.

[Bubstr]

For being in bed with the Progressives I do still blame big unions totally. The Progressives are also responsible for this "Crony" capitalism. The free market system and pure capitalism is under full assault by the Progressives who want the change it in order to destroy it or redefine it. Just like all of the other things that that are trying to redefine.

Free market capitalism has never worked. It's like playing monopoly. Sooner or later one player has all the money. Well regulated capitalism works. we had that from the 30s to the 90s and it worked as well as anything. Being a conservative, I want them regulations conserved. regulations like Glass Stegal, some kind of gold standard or any standard that doesn't allow government to print as much money as they want. I want to conserve the monopoly laws that when destroyed allow too big to fail businesses. This deregulation has made a mess of our economy and is well on it's way to ruining our way of life. Something else, I'd like to conserve. You see the republicans or the democrats are not real conservatives. Real conservatives liked the strong unions that kept a balance between Wall Street and Main Street. The real conservative wouldn't put up with induced high unemployment, then kick them when they are down. A real conservative wouldn't spend money on the military, they didn't need to and didn't have and turn around and make the poorest pay the price.

I just get tired of so called conservatives fixing things that aren't broke, then wonder what went wrong or worse find someone else to blame. We can start on the liberals next. They are no better.

[DrtRvr1]

The only people that complain about unions are the ones that have never had a union job, huh. Without unions you would not have the good working conditions that many of you have now, even without a union. Do you really think that, if unions are totally gotten rid of your jobs are going to come back and everything will be good? Wrong, your employers will continue to lower your wages for more work, no benefits and long hours. You bodies will never hold up to the abuse you put on it at a young age never mind an older worker. You need to earn a certain amount of dollars to live the american dream. House, car/truck, kids and a good paying job with benefits and a good retirement package will let you dream it. Whether you were able to tuck away enough money for yourself or you have a good pension plan, you can thank unions for that, at your retirement. In the old days, union workers put their life on the line, for what all workers enjoy today, Union or non Union, you have rights because of those union workers sticking up for the general worker. The way that people are thinking now will only put them in the poorhouse or on disability for trying to work a ton of hours because you have low pay and you have to work that many hours just to stay afloat. You better not talk bad about Obama care, because you and your family, just might need it to save your life. Its easy to talk the talk, but old Union members walked the walk to get the working conditions that we enjoy today. If you don't believe this, you don't know your history and you better look out for your and your kids futures. Times are changing fast. Hold on for the ride.

[Barbecueboy]

Unions were once a good thing.........when they started there were no support groups,whistle blower laws, or an abundance of good labor attorneys that would take on the plight of workers ............in MOST cases , employees rights get trampled now, they have recourse (and that I believe is one of the best old school union legacy's)...........But in today's world, the unions are more like the greedy lobbyist that clog up the works up in DC.......ineffective for the masses they claim to represent,inefficient,and top heavy greediness throughout........They have gone the way of the 8 track player ........years ago they were THE THING to have.......now a days , the are irrelevant relics of the past.You pro union guys have all said that if it werent for them that our work rights today would be completely different.........You are right and we are all thankful for there early good intentions and great work to protect our rights, but in today's world they are an anchor to efficient business.........

[fastford]

The only people that complain about unions are the ones that have never had a union job, huh. Without unions you would not have the good working conditions that many of you have now, even without a union. Do you really think that, if unions are totally gotten rid of your jobs are going to come back and everything will be good? Wrong, your employers will continue to lower your wages for more work, no benefits and long hours. You bodies will never hold up to the abuse you put on it at a young age never mind an older worker. You need to earn a certain amount of dollars to live the american dream. House, car/truck, kids and a good paying job with benefits and a good retirement package will let you dream it. Whether you were able to tuck away enough money for yourself or you have a good pension plan, you can thank unions for that, at your retirement. In the old days, union workers put their life on the line, for what all workers enjoy today, Union or non Union, you have rights because of those union workers sticking up for the general worker. The way that people are thinking now will only put them in the poorhouse or on disability for trying to work a ton of hours because you have low pay and you have to work that many hours just to stay afloat. You better not talk bad about Obama care, because you and your family, just might need it to save your life. Its easy to talk the talk, but old Union members walked the walk to get the working conditions that we enjoy today. If you don't believe this, you don't know your history and you better look out for your and your kids futures. Times are changing fast. Hold on for the ride.

your right , ive never worked a union job, but my 75 yr old uncle has, and this is his story, he worked in a unionized marble quarry for nearly 40 years, belonged to union and payed dues for years, the quarry next door was non union, offered more wage, more benefits, better insurance and more vacation. the quarry next door bought out his quarry and told the new employees that if they kept the union out they would recieve the same benefits as the non union employees. well here comes all the big shot union officials(desk jockeys from up north) . they convinced the younger workers to vote the union in, my uncle was older and wise enough to see the real deal and fought against the union because he realized the union had become nothing more than politics and had gotten completely away from local control. the union came in, company said ok , your only gone get what your union allows, 30min lunch instead of there hr, two 15 min breaks instead of two 30 min , higher insurance cost and less retirement, which he retired 4 yrs later and is drawing half today what he would have if they would have kept union out . after 30 plus years as a union man , it would be hard for you or anyone else to convince him todays union is better

[Bubstr]

your right , ive never worked a union job, but my 75 yr old uncle has, and this is his story, he worked in a unionized marble quarry for nearly 40 years, belonged to union and payed dues for years, the quarry next door was non union, offered more wage, more benefits, better insurance and more vacation. the quarry next door bought out his quarry and told the new employees that if they kept the union out they would recieve the same benefits as the non union employees. well here comes all the big shot union officials(desk jockeys from up north) . they convinced the younger workers to vote the union in, my uncle was older and wise enough to see the real deal and fought against the union because he realized the union had become nothing more than politics and had gotten completely away from local control. the union came in, company said ok , your only gone get what your union allows, 30min lunch instead of there hr, two 15 min breaks instead of two 30 min , higher insurance cost and less retirement, which he retired 4 yrs later and is drawing half today what he would have if they would have kept union out . after 30 plus years as a union man , it would be hard for you or anyone else to convince him todays union is better

And your Uncle worked the union job for over 30 years and never had the conviction to go get that non union job, then after 4 years wants the benefits of that non union job? How many of them non union people didn't make it for thirty years to retire because they didn't have a union to represent them. I have a good friend that manages 5 non union trucking terminals. His boss told him to get rid of everyone over 45. If he didn't, the boss would find someone that would. They just dumped a mountain of insurance and retirement legacy. Threw my lifetime I've worked both and the union jobs where in open and closed states. They are all different and not all good or bad, just the same as the non union jobs. What I did notice, was the places that had unions, deserved them. They invite them because of mistreatment of employees.

For those that think Unions where good in their day but not necessary today, They are like a diet, not necessarily pleasant but serve a purpose. If you discard the diet, you will get fat. Discard the union and you will lose the employment laws we have. You can already see that happening if you look with an open mind.

[DrtRvr1]

Unions were once a good thing.........when they started there were no support groups,whistle blower laws, or an abundance of good labor attorneys

Do you realize that a Union can save your job to begin with? If you get canned for example, you are getting older and they just want to get rid of you because of that. Unions are there to fight for your job, free of charge. Whistle blower laws, all they do is pit worker against worker. A scared and disorganized work force is easy to control. Everyone is looking over their shoulder worrying about their job. Kissing up to their bosses, and accepting their free pizza. If you get paid a decent wage, you can buy your own pizza, and take care of your own family, the way you see fit. Hiring a lawyer? How are you going to do that.? You just lost your job, where are you going to get the money from to hire him? In a Unionized environment, you know you have fairly good protection, unless the place closes or your union has to negotiate lower wages for you, because the place might shut down without recessions. But that vote is up to you whether you want to work for lower wages or not with a Union. Without a Union, you are told, starting tomorrow, you are going to be cut $5 an hour in pay, and your have to pay more for your benefits. So with a Union now you can go make that purchase that may take you 3 years to pay off and feel fairly comfortable about doing it.. In today's economy, there are a lot of people hanging onto their money because they do not know if they are going to have a job tomorrow. That is one of the main reasons our economies are so bad. Like I said, Hang onto your hats, Times are changing fast.

[Barbecueboy]

Do you realize that a Union can save your job to begin with? If you get canned for example, you are getting older and they just want to get rid of you because of that. Unions are there to fight for your job, free of charge. Whistle blower laws, all they do is pit worker against worker. A scared and disorganized work force is easy to control. Everyone is looking over their shoulder worrying about their job. Kissing up to their bosses, and accepting their free pizza. If you get paid a decent wage, you can buy your own pizza, and take care of your own family, the way you see fit. Hiring a lawyer? How are you going to do that.? You just lost your job, where are you going to get the money from to hire him? In a Unionized environment, you know you have fairly good protection, unless the place closes or your union has to negotiate lower wages for you, because the place might shut down without recessions. But that vote is up to you whether you want to work for lower wages or not with a Union. Without a Union, you are told, starting tomorrow, you are going to be cut $5 an hour in pay, and your have to pay more for your benefits. So with a Union now you can go make that purchase that may take you 3 years to pay off and feel fairly comfortable about doing it.. In today's economy, there are a lot of people hanging onto their money because they do not know if they are going to have a job tomorrow. That is one of the main reasons our economies are so bad. Like I said, Hang onto your hats, Times are changing fast.

So your saying if I live in a right to work state that is virtually non union(with very few exceptions) that the union will step in and fight for me to get my job back?You must not be familiar with the right to work ...........If I'm being discriminated against and get fired because of my age, there are many people and organizations that will take on my plight......not the least of which is me with a good labor attorney that will often take cases of discrimination on contingency or pro bono...........I really don't need a bunch of top skimmers representing and taking up for me on something like that........and even if they did, do you really think it is actually FREE????.........Now on the other hand , if I'm just an old overpaid unproductive worker, then I deserve to get what I get.............nobody seems to want to be accountable anymore for there own actions and performance while on the job............put it in the hands of a union and still nobody wants to be accountable for anything, but they demand 3 times the average wage to do it................................

[halfast07]

Unions like many other things have out lived there needs..we used to need typewriters and flat head fords...not anymore....JMO

[Barbecueboy]

Do you realize that a Union can save your job to begin with? If you get canned for example, you are getting older and they just want to get rid of you because of that. Unions are there to fight for your job, free of charge. Whistle blower laws, all they do is pit worker against worker. A scared and disorganized work force is easy to control. Everyone is looking over their shoulder worrying about their job. Kissing up to their bosses, and accepting their free pizza. If you get paid a decent wage, you can buy your own pizza, and take care of your own family, the way you see fit. Hiring a lawyer? How are you going to do that.? You just lost your job, where are you going to get the money from to hire him? In a Unionized environment, you know you have fairly good protection, unless the place closes or your union has to negotiate lower wages for you, because the place might shut down without recessions. But that vote is up to you whether you want to work for lower wages or not with a Union. Without a Union, you are told, starting tomorrow, you are going to be cut $5 an hour in pay, and your have to pay more for your benefits. So with a Union now you can go make that purchase that may take you 3 years to pay off and feel fairly comfortable about doing it.. In today's economy, there are a lot of people hanging onto their money because they do not know if they are going to have a job tomorrow. That is one of the main reasons our economies are so bad. Like I said, Hang onto your hats, Times are changing fast.

Whistleblower laws pit worker against worker???? And unions do not????Whistleblowers are normally reporting bad and illegal practices that mgmt or corporate is making them do illegally or at best immorally.......I wouldn't exactly call that pitting worker against worker........more like exposing illegalities or bad practices that mgmt or corporate is trying to cover up...........those laws do pretty much exactly what you guys all claim that a union will do for you.........provide you protection...................I'm assuming you are possibly a current or past member of a union and quite possibly a local steward or official........There is no selling me on them.........As an intelligent responsible adult, I can stand up for myself if I feel I've been wronged by an employer...........I don't need or want any Obama like rhetoric (big brother will take care of you) to look out for me.............where I work,we are non union, we do it as a team........we all pitch in no matter what title Any of us have......we all make a decent wage........the environment we work in is healthy, our company is healthy and most of us love working for who we do..............Unions are dinosaurs............slowly becoming more and more extinct..........good riddance.

[Bubstr]

So your saying if I live in a right to work state that is virtually non union(with very few exceptions) that the union will step in and fight for me to get my job back?You must not be familiar with the right to work ...........If I'm being discriminated against and get fired because of my age, there are many people and organizations that will take on my plight......not the least of which is me with a good labor attorney that will often take cases of discrimination on contingency or pro bono...........I really don't need a bunch of top skimmers representing and taking up for me on something like that........and even if they did, do you really think it is actually FREE????.........Now on the other hand , if I'm just an old overpaid unproductive worker, then I deserve to get what I get.............nobody seems to want to be accountable anymore for there own actions and performance while on the job............put it in the hands of a union and still nobody wants to be accountable for anything, but they demand 3 times the average wage to do it................................

How about your getting older and it raises the cost of the insurance pool your in. As your employer pays some or all of that, he can save a lot of money by having a young work force, productive or not. This doesn't even address the vacation time or sick leave acquiring or the lower wages of a new employee. If your employer can get rid of you before you turn 60 or have time vested in 401ks, he saves a good percentage of his donation. In my case it would have been 4% of 20 years wages. I'm just glad he wasn't that greedy, but there are some that are. What age are you going to retire? 68 69 70? The SS age requirement keeps going up. A few years ago, a friend of mine went to work at a body shop, he worked at for 20 years. His boss cut everyone's wages by 1/3 and was told, if you don't like it, there is the door. There was absolutely nothing they could do about it. I will say they employed 10 men then and only employ 5 now, their reputation is shot and have a hard time keeping those 5 busy, but that don't help the guys with the ultimatum.

What you guys don't see, is these laws that protect you, where won by the unions and like some of the financial laws, they can be rewrote with out opposition. By throwing the Union under the bus, your throwing away one of the only lobbies that represent the working public. Take a lesson from History, don't let them sell you a bill of goods that is going to be your downfall. To me, it doesn't matter, I've been retired for 7 years. I just don't like to see good people get reamed because of ignorance.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Free market capitalism has never worked. It's like playing monopoly. Sooner or later one player has all the money. Well regulated capitalism works. we had that from the 30s to the 90s and it worked as well as anything. Being a conservative, I want them regulations conserved. regulations like Glass Stegal, some kind of gold standard or any standard that doesn't allow government to print as much money as they want. I want to conserve the monopoly laws that when destroyed allow too big to fail businesses. This deregulation has made a mess of our economy and is well on it's way to ruining our way of life. Something else, I'd like to conserve. You see the republicans or the democrats are not real conservatives. Real conservatives liked the strong unions that kept a balance between Wall Street and Main Street. The real conservative wouldn't put up with induced high unemployment, then kick them when they are down. A real conservative wouldn't spend money on the military, they didn't need to and didn't have and turn around and make the poorest pay the price.

I just get tired of so called conservatives fixing things that aren't broke, then wonder what went wrong or worse find someone else to blame. We can start on the liberals next. They are no better.

Liberals are no better? That's an understatement.

[Clayton_Wetter]

So your saying if I live in a right to work state that is virtually non union(with very few exceptions) that the union will step in and fight for me to get my job back?You must not be familiar with the right to work ...........If I'm being discriminated against and get fired because of my age, there are many people and organizations that will take on my plight......not the least of which is me with a good labor attorney that will often take cases of discrimination on contingency or pro bono...........I really don't need a bunch of top skimmers representing and taking up for me on something like that........and even if they did, do you really think it is actually FREE????.........Now on the other hand , if I'm just an old overpaid unproductive worker, then I deserve to get what I get.............nobody seems to want to be accountable anymore for there own actions and performance while on the job............put it in the hands of a union and still nobody wants to be accountable for anything, but they demand 3 times the average wage to do it................................

And here we have a reality check of todays unions overall. These pretenders of workers rights and conditions are basically leeching off of industries and businesses and the costs are passes on to the consumers. Unions have always been a major contributor to inflation and have saved the jobs of many deadbeats.