Crash Controversy

[Raceready]

Evidently somebody is thinking that the multi colored seats to make it look like real people are in fact real people? And the fact that many sets of bleachers that were removed make the rest of what is left look fuller.

[CIRF]

Raceready, the backstretch bleachers at Talladega disappeared several years ago. I wonder why?

Those seats colored to look like people are setting in them work pretty good. They fooled the all observant, self appointed NASCAR PR spokesman and my buddy muddy! LOL!!

[TS FAN]

I am going to weigh in on this subject. I have never liked plate racing. I have always said that plate tracks should be exhibition racing for any dare devil that cares to enter. With that said, the carnage from this past race is a product of the newer Nascar scoring system. Win and your in ETC. There is no reason not to go balls to wall and claim victory. It is dangerous and stupid of course. The thing is, the plate racing can be toned down by the drivers. Wait till the fall dega race. Then it will be more about points and not wrecking chasers. Last year, the fall race had quite a bit less carnage and I expect that will be the case again. Nascar is going to keep this up until tragedy ensues, i am afraid. I know they have made great strides in safety, but putting on aerial shows 4 times a year is just asking for trouble.

[formercrewguy]

I say take the plates off, feed em steroids and let em race!!

[Barbecueboy]

But attendance for 'dega was huge.... so your post is nonsense....

Huge compared to what??????

The rest of the races that have been run this year????

It was far from its heyday of HUGE.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Huge?! Hahahahaha!!

It was Uuuuge!!!!

[CIRF]

I am going to weigh in on this subject. I have never liked plate racing. I have always said that plate tracks should be exhibition racing for any dare devil that cares to enter. With that said, the carnage from this past race is a product of the newer Nascar scoring system. Win and your in ETC. There is no reason not to go balls to wall and claim victory. It is dangerous and stupid of course. The thing is, the plate racing can be toned down by the drivers. Wait till the fall dega race. Then it will be more about points and not wrecking chasers. Last year, the fall race had quite a bit less carnage and I expect that will be the case again. Nascar is going to keep this up until tragedy ensues, i am afraid. I know they have made great strides in safety, but putting on aerial shows 4 times a year is just asking for trouble.

Power, you're right start to finish on this post. Especially the part about the drivers being able to control the carnage. Remember the first restrictor plate race following arnhead's untimely demise? It went green flag to flag at Talladega without incident. The drivers were very compliant in their give and take that day.

In today's racing environment where respect among drivers is in very short supply the sad inevitable is in the making every time they run these restrictor plate tracks. We all know that drivers have been hurt and died while competing in this kind of racing and if NASCAR doesn't change some things it's a matter of when, not if, it happens again.

Power, do you remember who the late Bobby Hamilton snookered while taking the lead and the win on the last lap? I've got a feeling you might.

Huge compared to what??????

The rest of the races that have been run this year????

It was far from its heyday of HUGE.

Spot on BBQB.

[ClampedUp]

The fact is NASCAR isn't going to do a dang thing until a driver is killed or a car gets in the grandstands and kills people there. They have been VERY lucky with the latter but their luck is going to run out and when it does NASCAR/France is not only going to have to deal with the legal and civil onslaught it will not surprise me one bit that the federal government will get involved heavily.
That crap they are putting on at the super speedways is not racing and looking at the grandstands and TV ratings Brian France is either blind or just doesn't give a $hit but he is losing more and more fans and can't keep major sponsors for the series more than a handful of years.
It doesn't take a person with a business degree to figure out your product $ucks and it need fixed in a major way.

[Aces&Eights]

Its so simple

I receive updates via e-mail from National Speed Sport News about a half dozen times a week. I just received one that highlights the Talladega Cup race and the article contained the concerns and thoughts of a couple of Cup drivers in regards to all the wrecking and cars taking flight.

One of the Childress grandkids seems to believe that something needs to be done to try to lessen the carnage and potential for driver injury. But, Brad Keselowski seems to think it's all a part of racing and there are people who attend or watch on TV that are drawn to the sport because of crashes.

I personally don't want to see crashes, I want to see good, hard, clean racing with the drivers and cars determining who wins, not crashes and/or dirty driving.

One point of view is that at the restrictor plate tracks the Cup drivers need to espouse to the open wheel doctrine of, race hard and close but seriously avoid coming in contact with another car.

I'm just wondering what you NASCAR aficionado's think about this. It's been a point of discussion for decades and most drivers don't want to compete at Daytona and Talladega.

Kurt "the head case" Busch even spoke of not running at Daytona in July because he hates restricor racing so much, but I'm betting that Stewart and sponsors will have something to say about that!

I'm not gonna claim, "aficionado" status, but I'll chime in. I've long felt that the restrictor plates were a move in the wrong direction. The solution to the pack racing and situations that facilitate, "The Big One" are four.

First remove the rear spoliers, no or low downforce will yield higher straight speeds but the corner speed will be lower due to less traction and having to lift off the accelerator and actually drive the car.

Second, Narrow the tires back to widths used in late 60's, this too will decrease overall traction and necessitate actual driving.

Third, remove the restrictor plates, heck go unlimited cubes.

Fourth, make bumps and coil binding illegal and institute a maximum nose height rule.

If you do all of these things the cars will naturally become more separated by talent and actually have a race worth watching. No longer need to drive with the mirror and block.

[CIRF]

I'm not gonna claim, "aficionado" status, but I'll chime in. I've long felt that the restrictor plates were a move in the wrong direction. The solution to the pack racing and situations that facilitate, "The Big One" are four.

First remove the rear spoliers, no or low downforce will yield higher straight speeds but the corner speed will be lower due to less traction and having to lift off the accelerator and actually drive the car.

Second, Narrow the tires back to widths used in late 60's, this too will decrease overall traction and necessitate actual driving.

Third, remove the restrictor plates, heck go unlimited cubes.

Fourth, make bumps and coil binding illegal and institute a maximum nose height rule.

If you do all of these things the cars will naturally become more separated by talent and actually have a race worth watching. No longer need to drive with the mirror and block.

Your points are well taken A&E. They have been suggested and reiterated numerous times here and many other places over the years. I would only add that they maybe should take the front splitter's and air dams off of the cars, as well.

I am neither familiar enough or have enough engineering expertise in regards to a Cup racecar to understand all the implications of doing away with all the aspects of the cars that you mention. Whether or not there would be safety concerns in the changes you suggest is another facet to be considered.

In regards to the subject of blocking it should be tightly controlled or eliminated altogether. If memory serves me a famous driver was killed some years back as a result of blocking. That driver used blocking expertise dozens, if not hundreds of times over the years and got away with it but as we found out it only takes once.

[Raceready]

Yes it was implicated by many experts in the field that blatant blocking coupled with improper safety belt mounting and usage could have very well have caused the result of a preventable death in the sport.

[Aces&Eights]

The current rules make blocking a must, I mean if you actually race to win... If your a Waltrip I guess riding around all day is ok. The Earnhardt accident involved several facets that led to his untimely death. One, he refused to use a Hans Device, they were available just not mainstream yet. Two, he didn't use an actual racing seat. If you look on youtube you can find a video of the seat he made himself an used, based off a 65' Mustang if memory serves me. Third, the cars back then were built much stiffer in the front end and had little absorption of the energy in the crash. Fourth, the rules make it so the cars must run in a pack and have no power in reserve to catch the car or to make any corrections, you simply run flat footed all the way round. The seat belt argument was Nascar shifting blame away from themselves. We have other tracks now that are faster than 200MPH, but the cars can get away from each other and arent forced to run in packs, blocking and bumping. They are essentially "BIG" stock class go karts shoving each other around the track.

A second option is cut down the banking to around 20 degrees and leave off the restrictor. They won't do anything, they like the DA box they've built too much. The same way the twits at the top sanctioning bodies of DLM don't know anything about race cars and make absurd suspension rules, the twits at Nascrap don't know anything about racing either. BF would tinkle his pants if he ever sat in a race car, much less got it moving. It is a sad day in motorsports and the country as a whole, no competent leadership to be found, just lemmings.

I know how we can fix it, we'll give everybody a trophy for participation...

[CIRF]

The current rules make blocking a must, I mean if you actually race to win... If your a Waltrip I guess riding around all day is ok. The Earnhardt accident involved several facets that led to his untimely death. One, he refused to use a Hans Device, they were available just not mainstream yet. Two, he didn't use an actual racing seat. If you look on youtube you can find a video of the seat he made himself an used, based off a 65' Mustang if memory serves me. Third, the cars back then were built much stiffer in the front end and had little absorption of the energy in the crash. Fourth, the rules make it so the cars must run in a pack and have no power in reserve to catch the car or to make any corrections, you simply run flat footed all the way round. The seat belt argument was Nascar shifting blame away from themselves. We have other tracks now that are faster than 200MPH, but the cars can get away from each other and arent forced to run in packs, blocking and bumping. They are essentially "BIG" stock class go karts shoving each other around the track.

A second option is cut down the banking to around 20 degrees and leave off the restrictor. They won't do anything, they like the DA box they've built too much. The same way the twits at the top sanctioning bodies of DLM don't know anything about race cars and make absurd suspension rules, the twits at Nascrap don't know anything about racing either. BF would tinkle his pants if he ever sat in a race car, much less got it moving. It is a sad day in motorsports and the country as a whole, no competent leadership to be found, just lemmings.

I know how we can fix it, we'll give everybody a trophy for participation...

Nothing you say can be disputed in regards the circumstances surrounding the fatal of Feb. 18, 2001. However, the fact remains that if a no blocking rule was enforced and punishable in a significant way at least one driver might still be breathing and walking around. How much destroyed equipment and injuries have been perpetrated by blatant blocking? The short answer is: a lot.

A protracted discussion regarding the pros and cons of making blocking a rules violation is futile since NASCAR is not interested in curtailing it. Not now, and probably not ever, unless there are a series of serious injuries and/or fatalities directly attributed to blocking.

[nuff said]

Brad wasn't such a fan of it when Edwards put him on his lid a few years back.

[formercrewguy]

Nothing you say can be disputed in regards the circumstances surrounding the fatal of Feb. 18, 2001. However, the fact remains that if a no blocking rule was enforced and punishable in a significant way at least one driver might still be breathing and walking around. How much destroyed equipment and injuries have been perpetrated by blatant blocking? The short answer is: a lot.

A protracted discussion regarding the pros and cons of making blocking a rules violation is futile since NASCAR is not interested in curtailing it. Not now, and probably not ever, unless there are a series of serious injuries and/or fatalities directly attributed to blocking.

There is plenty of blocking in Indy Car, also. It's part of racing.