Time for some new rules re. Provisionals

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Thanks chubb n bloomer fan, changed the settings on my account and it worked.

You're welcome. Randle Chupp is why I chose it, but I like Chub too.

[W2Racing09]

What's with the smart a$$ comment about having a brain between their ears, I've been around dirt racing for 40+ years and know my fair share regarding it. Did you even read the full section re: provisionals that the WoO Sprints (which is the highest level dirt racing tour by attendance) use and how it is done? Since you think you are so fuching smart, explain why this would not work for late models? How many fans do you think are going to these races now to see Colton Flinner, and Steve Francis (he is not the draw to fans like he was before)?

The competition around the country in the SLM division is significantly higher than the competition in the Sprint division. If the Sprints are not in CA, IA, PA or the surrounding area then the field is filled with 360s and a few low end 410 cars unless someone like James McFadden, or Brian Brown is following a whole leg of the series. Even if these fields were filled with well funded 410 operations the WoO Sprint drivers have crazy budgets beyond most anything in the SLM division (look at Shane Stewart who finished 6th in points on the WoO Sprints, his counterpart on the LOLMDS? Dennis Erb. Which driver do you think can afford more DNQ's in a season?).

Furthermore there is only one National 410 series in the country (so imagine an LM series that featured the best from both the WoO and the LOLMDS: Last years roster would of looked something like Bloomquist, Davenport, McCreadie, Sheppard, O'Neal, Erb, Richards, Clanton, Eckert and Overton -- I don't think they would use many provisionals). Supporting two series means the top shelf talent is split up, and as a result you are filling your ranks with guys who wouldn't make that top 10 list. If there are not enough guys at the next rung down (Regional level talent) then you are having to fill from the next rung after that (Local level talent).

Local and even Regional talent is going to be competing with guys who are equal or possibly better than they are at each event (for instance, someone like Frank Heckenast would be a top regional guy in IL, and when he has to race against people in the same position as him but in other regions IE: Ferguson, or Stovall he is not a shoe in to qualify for the show over them)

Those Regional and Local level guys are the people who can least afford to travel all over the country and not be guaranteed money. They would be dropping off the tour left and right when they would miss strings of 5 or 6 shows. A lot of tracks need the guarantee that the WoO is going to bring 13-14 cars to the shows with them -- if it were just 5 or 6 there would have been shows for both series with significantly less than a full field of cars. Economically it is really a requirement for the series to bring with it at least 10 cars. Without offering a significant amount of provisionals you wouldn't see close to 10 cars following each tour.

The smartass comment was in response to your smartass comment assuming everyone who understands the reason for provisionals is a Liberal who wants participation trophies and equal pay throughout the field. That isn't the case, and ideally provisionals wouldn't be needed. But there are not 24 top flight operations interested in touring around the country with the National tours and until that happens you will need up and coming or lower budget teams and those teams need provisionals or they won't be there.

[W2Racing09]

This Jeff dude is such a typical leftist. My response about him buying a track and jacking up purses was clearly directed towards the above comment . There has been 1 car in touring series history that has ever used even close to that many provisionals. It's not that the dude times well and just misses transfers, he times 1.2 seconds off or more runs dead last in the heat dead last in the feature and still gets a free pass to get in the leaders was every 7 laps . No Steve Francis is no where near what I described. I watched every night at east bay and Francis was competitive. No one buys tickets to Lucas shows to watch guys frump around the back. Clearly that is lost on all the liberals here.

As Chupp and Bloomer fan said, there is nothing about politics, participation trophies or anything else. Colton Flinner is at a different level than anything before as you said. If you were talking about a rule that restricted the provisionals at 8 or 12 or something like that then that is fine, but 2 in the first half of the year and 2 in the second half? Half of the LOLMDS would be out of provisionals by now, and I'm sure half of the WoO would be out by the time April ends. Francis was competitive as you said, but Francis would be out of provisionals by the time he left Golden Isles, along with Erb. Several others would now be out of provisionals following the week at Eastbay, and Ocala. Keep in mind they would have another 20 or so races to go before they could use another Provisional, and then they would only get 2 which would have to cover them through the toughest stretch of big money, huge field shows in the business on the LOLMDS. How many of those guys are going to stick it out? Flinner isn't drawing fans, no. But Francis, Erb, EPJ and Lanigan? They sure as hell are.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Highside Hustler25]

When the regional racer gets fed up with not making the show so some touring guy who is obviously a lot slower gets a free pass? Then you'll have a 12 car Lucas Oil show with 2 heats, no B Main and a feature. I'm sure they'll still want their 25-30 dollars at the gate. That should go over quite well with the die hard race fan

I am not saying to do away with provisionals. Just limit them.

[W2Racing09]

When the regional racer gets fed up with not making the show so some touring guy who is obviously a lot slower gets a free pass? Then you'll have a 12 car Lucas Oil show with 2 heats, no B Main and a feature. I'm sure they'll still want their 25-30 dollars at the gate. That should go over quite well with the die hard race fan

I am not saying to do away with provisionals. Just limit them.

This has been going on for years and car counts have not really gotten worse because of it so I don't think this is much of an issue. Its not like the guys using provisionals are bumping people out of the race on a regular basis. Drivers are told how many cars they are taking from each heat, and from each B-Main. provisionals are added to the end after all is said and done. If they are upset that they don't get a provisional and a tour guy does then they should load up their car and put in the work of following the series around the country. Otherwise, why bother following a tour? There would be no benefit really.

[Highside Hustler25]

This has been going on for years and car counts have not really gotten worse because of it so I don't think this is much of an issue. Its not like the guys using provisionals are bumping people out of the race on a regular basis. Drivers are told how many cars they are taking from each heat, and from each B-Main. provisionals are added to the end after all is said and done. If they are upset that they don't get a provisional and a tour guy does then they should load up their car and put in the work of following the series around the country. Otherwise, why bother following a tour? There would be no benefit really.

I can sort of agree with you're assessment Jeff, but if you eliminated 4 provisionals, that could be 4 guys that essentially raced there way in.

[W2Racing09]

I can sort of agree with you're assessment Jeff, but if you eliminated 4 provisionals, that could be 4 guys that essentially raced there way in.

Yeah, I think it applies more to big races and stuff but I can see that point of view too. For the regular $10k shows I'm sure the LOLMDS just prefers all their guys to qualify so they don't have to start 28 cars or whatever. I can see it more for like the DTWC when you miss qualifying by one spot and then Flinner or Francis gets a provisional after finishing 9th in the same B-Main as you or something. But like I said there has to be a benefit to the tour, and without provisionals I don't know what it would be.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Didn't Flinner use a provisional every event last year

[Josh Bayko]

Didn't Flinner use a provisional every event last year

On a different board, somebody did the math. He made 3 Lucas races on merit in 2016.

[Bubstr]

Now I am confused. Liberal / conservative. Liberal wants change, but not in this case, they want to conserve. The conservative wants to conserve but in this case wants change. I think it's like politics, They want what they want and trow labels around as they wish. Does the party tell you when to conserve and when to want change? The constant I do see is someone saying, "your not on my side here is a label that says your stupid. Of course when you give that label, it says you are stupid. Even defending either position, says you can't think for yourself.

Provisional is a good and bad thing. First, if there was no series tours there would not be LM racing. WOO, LOLM UMP and regional series are what keeps LM racing alive. There just aren't enough Late Models to support weekly racing anymore, in most areas. The tours give those guys a place to race if they are good enough. The tours sell a show to the local track. They promise to produce most of the car count with quality drivers. To keep these quality drivers, they offer incentives and provisional is one of these. It's good for the Tour. It's good for the track, but it's not so good for the regional racers trying to race into a show. The bottom line as to how many provisional are given, will be determined by car count. If the field drops off to 30 or under, you can bet it's because the reward to the regional driver is not worth what is spent to participate. For us fans, it is frustrating to see our regonal driver that may be faster than one of the touring guys, get shut out of a race due to a provisional. All I can say, is be glad the touring group came to town and gave the local driver the chance. Some day the tours will have 80% of the field locked in with franchised cars. The local guy will have to buy a franchise to race, but there will be very few of the local guys. Something like building a Sprint Cup car and going to Daytona this week.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Now I am confused. Liberal / conservative. Liberal wants change, but not in this case, they want to conserve. The conservative wants to conserve but in this case wants change. I think it's like politics, They want what they want and trow labels around as they wish. Does the party tell you when to conserve and when to want change? The constant I do see is someone saying, "your not on my side here is a label that says your stupid. Of course when you give that label, it says you are stupid. Even defending either position, says you can't think for yourself.

Provisional is a good and bad thing. First, if there was no series tours there would not be LM racing. WOO, LOLM UMP and regional series are what keeps LM racing alive. There just aren't enough Late Models to support weekly racing anymore, in most areas. The tours give those guys a place to race if they are good enough. The tours sell a show to the local track. They promise to produce most of the car count with quality drivers. To keep these quality drivers, they offer incentives and provisional is one of these. It's good for the Tour. It's good for the track, but it's not so good for the regional racers trying to race into a show. The bottom line as to how many provisional are given, will be determined by car count. If the field drops off to 30 or under, you can bet it's because the reward to the regional driver is not worth what is spent to participate. For us fans, it is frustrating to see our regonal driver that may be faster than one of the touring guys, get shut out of a race due to a provisional. All I can say, is be glad the touring group came to town and gave the local driver the chance. Some day the tours will have 80% of the field locked in with franchised cars. The local guy will have to buy a franchise to race, but there will be very few of the local guys. Something like building a Sprint Cup car and going to Daytona this week.

The first part of your post, spot on. Think for yourself, leave the sorely overused labels out.

Second part, I agree with and God I hope it doesn't turn into NASCRAP.