Justin Rattliff

[chupp n bloomer fan]

The part I don't get is why would he show up in the first place?

Why not? He's a regional guy who races part time, probably didn't think he'd get popped. He was always very wreckless when I seen him race(sarcasm)

[vande077]

I'd be surprised if a police officer would arrest you for refusing a drug test requested by a private company. That's a civil issue, not a criminal one. The trespassing part, yes, you might convince an officer to arrest the guy if he refuses to leave private property after being asked to leave. But for just refusing a drug test the police are going to tell you that's an issue between you and the guy requesting the test. Obviously there are exceptions to everything, but in probably 99% of the cases the police aren't going to want to touch that because there has been no criminal statute broken.

Bit it's really odd that they would pick a guy who doesn't run many series races and has been putting someone else in his car the last few months.

refusing the drug test is what ends up getting you arrested (cause more than likely you make a scene when they ask you to leave and get arrested for Trespassing). Officers aren't deaf and can use your refusal to leave as "probable cause" to get a court order for a drug test at the local hospital so they can charge you criminally. There are idiots that do this all the time across the US that if they just walk away would never have an issue legally.

Can they use the track drug test as a reason to arrest? No. It's the stuff that happens after the refusal of the test or when it comes back positive and they tell them they can't race that night that will burn them.

[zach51]

refusing the drug test is what ends up getting you arrested (cause more than likely you make a scene when they ask you to leave and get arrested for Trespassing). Officers aren't deaf and can use your refusal to leave as "probable cause" to get a court order for a drug test at the local hospital so they can charge you criminally. There are idiots that do this all the time across the US that if they just walk away would never have an issue legally.

Can they use the track drug test as a reason to arrest? No. It's the stuff that happens after the refusal of the test or when it comes back positive and they tell them they can't race that night that will burn them.

Local law enforcement is never going to touch this. Especially when it takes the sanctioning body 2 months to announce not that they failed, but they didn't even take the test. I usually agree with what you say, and I'm still not saying you are wrong, but it will never involve local law enforcement unless it is a Tyler Walker type scenario where the dude is assaulting people and obviously cranked out of his mind.

[vande077]

Local law enforcement is never going to touch this. Especially when it takes the sanctioning body 2 months to announce not that they failed, but they didn't even take the test. I usually agree with what you say, and I'm still not saying you are wrong, but it will never involve local law enforcement unless it is a Tyler Walker type scenario where the dude is assaulting people and obviously cranked out of his mind.

That was my point, it will be someone who makes a scene that gets arrested. Those that just say no, pack up and head home aren't the ones that will get arrested, it's the idiots. Sadly there are more of them than ever....

[NormP]

refusing the drug test is what ends up getting you arrested (cause more than likely you make a scene when they ask you to leave and get arrested for Trespassing). Officers aren't deaf and can use your refusal to leave as "probable cause" to get a court order for a drug test at the local hospital so they can charge you criminally. There are idiots that do this all the time across the US that if they just walk away would never have an issue legally.

Can they use the track drug test as a reason to arrest? No. It's the stuff that happens after the refusal of the test or when it comes back positive and they tell them they can't race that night that will burn them.

I'm not saying what you've described has never happened, but I've never seen an officer use refusal to leave the property as probable cause to get a court order for a drug test. That's not how probable cause works. Probable cause is that which would lead a reasonable person to believe a suspect has committed a crime. "Reasonable" is the word the court focuses on. No reasonable person is going to take trespassing as proof that a drug crime has been committed in this particular type of situation. And even if the track or whoever says "well I want him to leave because he wouldn't take a drug test" that still isn't going to interest the average officer enough to try to get a judge to order a drug test without any evidence the guy has ingested drugs, especially when it means disturbing a judge after hours. It requires a search warrant to get someone's bodily fluid if they do not voluntarily submit to the test.

Something like this:

Judge looks at the search warrant affidavit the officer wants him to sign: "So officer, what is your probable cause for this search warrant to draw blood or take a urine sample or both?"

Barney Fife: "Well he refused to take a pee test down at the track when they asked him to"

Judge: "Did you or anyone else observe him taking illegal drugs?"

Barney: "No"

"Did you find illegal drugs on his person or in his toter home?"

"No sir."

"Do you have any other proof he has used or is in possession of illegal drugs?"

"Well he wouldn't leave the track after he refused their test."

"That's it? I'm standing here in my robe at 11:30 pm and you bring this to me? You need to go back to academy and learn the meaning of probable cause. You're an embarrassment to your agency and a waste of my time."

Judge then goes inside and calls the chief or sheriff and bawls him out, resulting in a visit to the chief's office for the officer first thing Monday morning.

When it goes to court, specifically a probable cause hearing, the judge is going to require that you as the arresting officer demonstrate the probable cause to arrest the person. That's no problem for trespassing, but that's about all you have. And even in the case of trespassing, in a lot of states it's probably only going to be a ticket with a court date and that's enough to convince the guy to live to fight another day, unless he just flat out raises a ruckus at the track.

As someone else mentioned, it may have been you I don't remember, refusal to submit to a test requested by an officer when he suspects DUI is a completely different ballgame.

But you are right that if guys just cool off a little and look at the situation after a night's sleep, they could solve a lot of their own problems.


All that being said, I think this an odd choice of someone to be tested. "Randomly" test one of the regulars if you as a series want to show good faith and that you're taking it seriously. And who knows, maybe that random test comes back clean as a whistle.

Anyway, I've rambled enough.

[CGF]

This is total b s ....

It's up to the sanctioning body. They can have you arrested (without drugs on you) if you refuse to comply with their drug test or your refusal to vacate the property. And since you refused to comply with a random drug test, you give those arresting officers "reason" to get a court order to drug test you, search all your property (hauler, tow vehicle) and can charge you with a multitude of charges related and unrelated to the drug use (if you come back positive, they can charge you with OWI if you were behind the wheel of a licensed vehicle), they can charge you with Trespassing if you refused to leave the property, they can charge you with interference with official acts if you start making a scene when they try to detain you or to get you to leave the property. Happens every day of every week in every state across the US.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Vande077. Where the heck do you live ? I have stood beside men that refused drug test at work. Same as owner,driver,crew at a sanctioned WoO race. There is no big scene, no police are called, nothing. Can you work, no. They send that person home. At a race track if that driver refuses they have stated in there rules a bunch of crap, and crap and crap. So if I am the guy that runs SLM in Pennsylvania and on Wednesday I went and bought weed at the now legal weed refueling station and went fishing and rolled a dubbie and enjoyed my day of fishing. Come tomorrow we head to Lernerville for the Firecracker. I get tested and you open your mouth about crap I am going to own your a**. This is all a load of crap being pushed by idiots like yourself that think all people are guilty screw state laws. You need to go hug a tree that has poison ivy growing around it. Your a nut huggin, tree loving attention getter worm. Have a good day.

[MI Dirt Fan]

I'm not sure where he thinks it happens every day every week every state.

[fastford]

I'm not saying what you've described has never happened, but I've never seen an officer use refusal to leave the property as probable cause to get a court order for a drug test. That's not how probable cause works. Probable cause is that which would lead a reasonable person to believe a suspect has committed a crime. "Reasonable" is the word the court focuses on. No reasonable person is going to take trespassing as proof that a drug crime has been committed in this particular type of situation. And even if the track or whoever says "well I want him to leave because he wouldn't take a drug test" that still isn't going to interest the average officer enough to try to get a judge to order a drug test without any evidence the guy has ingested drugs, especially when it means disturbing a judge after hours. It requires a search warrant to get someone's bodily fluid if they do not voluntarily submit to the test.

Something like this:

Judge looks at the search warrant affidavit the officer wants him to sign: "So officer, what is your probable cause for this search warrant to draw blood or take a urine sample or both?"

Barney Fife: "Well he refused to take a pee test down at the track when they asked him to"

Judge: "Did you or anyone else observe him taking illegal drugs?"

Barney: "No"

"Did you find illegal drugs on his person or in his toter home?"

"No sir."

"Do you have any other proof he has used or is in possession of illegal drugs?"

"Well he wouldn't leave the track after he refused their test."

"That's it? I'm standing here in my robe at 11:30 pm and you bring this to me? You need to go back to academy and learn the meaning of probable cause. You're an embarrassment to your agency and a waste of my time."

Judge then goes inside and calls the chief or sheriff and bawls him out, resulting in a visit to the chief's office for the officer first thing Monday morning.

When it goes to court, specifically a probable cause hearing, the judge is going to require that you as the arresting officer demonstrate the probable cause to arrest the person. That's no problem for trespassing, but that's about all you have. And even in the case of trespassing, in a lot of states it's probably only going to be a ticket with a court date and that's enough to convince the guy to live to fight another day, unless he just flat out raises a ruckus at the track.

As someone else mentioned, it may have been you I don't remember, refusal to submit to a test requested by an officer when he suspects DUI is a completely different ballgame.

But you are right that if guys just cool off a little and look at the situation after a night's sleep, they could solve a lot of their own problems.


All that being said, I think this an odd choice of someone to be tested. "Randomly" test one of the regulars if you as a series want to show good faith and that you're taking it seriously. And who knows, maybe that random test comes back clean as a whistle.

Anyway, I've rambled enough.

rambling or not, well said norm, well said....

[lazermod3]

he would have to have the drug on him physically and be caught by a police officer of some kind to be charged , if he took a puff of pot a week ago and failed a drug test given by a race track or sanction, what are they gone charge him with?

smoking pot a week ago!

[fastford]

smoking pot a week ago!

they say it will stay in your system 30 or more days, so say he took a puff 10 days before and he tested positive, according to vande he could be arrested at the track, so i was wandering what the charge would be for failing a test at a race track, i dont know why im arguing this any way because it dont apply to me any more, gave it up 20 yrs ago when i had to have CDL to drive my car hauler . I guess its more about the fairness of it all....

[Illtsate32]

Lol vande loves cops apparently..

[MaverickSprints]

Vande077. Where the heck do you live ? I have stood beside men that refused drug test at work. Same as owner,driver,crew at a sanctioned WoO race. There is no big scene, no police are called, nothing. Can you work, no. They send that person home. At a race track if that driver refuses they have stated in there rules a bunch of crap, and crap and crap. So if I am the guy that runs SLM in Pennsylvania and on Wednesday I went and bought weed at the now legal weed refueling station and went fishing and rolled a dubbie and enjoyed my day of fishing. Come tomorrow we head to Lernerville for the Firecracker. I get tested and you open your mouth about crap I am going to own your a**. This is all a load of crap being pushed by idiots like yourself that think all people are guilty screw state laws. You need to go hug a tree that has poison ivy growing around it. Your a nut huggin, tree loving attention getter worm. Have a good day.

I'm putting this in for post of the decade! Preach on, Brother!

[thexfactor0210]

You cannot be charged with being on drugs. That is a fact.

[zyoung25]

I've lost count of the people I've seen walk off the job knowing they can't pass a whiz test.....none of them went to jail or was even threatened to be arrested. I know I said this in another thread awhile back. One guy I worked with came back he was pregnant in his test. Could they arrest him for stealing?