if we want supers to survive

[3 wide]

Well president Clinton your right way too many classes and they can't run the supers first while the track is in good shape they have too run junk wear the race track out and keep you there all night then they wonder why you don't want to come back.

[Highside Hustler25]

if you think you need a wide bore engine at farmer city Fals Macon Highland most any 1/4 to 1/5 mile bullring you need your head examined

Maybe not come Feature time, but it sure doesn't hurt for Qualifying.

[Clayton_Wetter]

First creating the MOD class took away from the number of LM's and then they had to turn around a make another class the Crates to take away even more. All three of these classes are not needed by the fans. The only one to profit are the track promoters from all of these classes.

There does need to be cost cutting rules made for LM's for the engines, shocks and more.

[Highside Hustler25]

who said anything about using a 604 or 602 and who needs to qualify

lol ! I had a reply for this but decided to not press the issue.

[grt74]

the 525 is not a bad motor for small tracks why don't more use them and whats wrong with coming up to 21st century and run coil pack engines

the problem with them is just like the crates, they let you in them hence cheating wars, which is what is going on the the crates of today. WHO CAN CHEAT THE BEST!!!!

and the 525 isn't as cheap as one may think.ive priced them, remember they do not come with all the accessories that youll need to get them in the car

im just wanting to have ideas out there for saving local supers, there just not as expensive as everyone says they are, and guys are spending just as much in the crates and limiteds, most of the front runners are in new if not fairly new cars, for the most part

just like someone has said above, get rid of all the different classes of late models, some will drop down to mods(there not very cheap anymore either)some will move up to supers, have a small entry fee for the car, with 2000 to win and 200 to start, its not rocket science, people will move up because of the winning purses every week(the crowd will see exciting racing again because guys are going to try and go for the win), then let crates be what they were supposed to be an entry point to get into late model racing, again just thinking out load

[TheJet-09]

I guess I'm not seeing the need or reasoning behind the entry fee? Whenever I see an entry fee, I feel the track/series is hoping cars break before the consi/feature so they don't have to pay them anything and would then profit off their being there (the entry fee on top of pit passes/concessions/etc.). Or is it a gimmick so you can show the start money as one thing (in this case $200), but it's really only $120 because we overlooked the $80 entry fee? At least help me understand the need/reasoning behind it, as I know virtually nothing from the promotional side of things.

And @ptown (I apologize, but my reply function has never worked on here), I know you often take a bunch of grief for some of your posts, but what 8 cars from 8/25 at Farmer City were Crates? I was one of the 18 cars that started the feature, and despite not being much faster than some of the "Crates" around these parts, I am every bit a SLM as I can be with my availability of resources. I actually can't think of one Crate that ran our class that night, but maybe I'm wrong. If the comment was meant to be insulting, then by all means join me one night and tell me where I am going wrong. I'll even pay your way in!

So as for the original problem/solutions, I'd love to see the old days of a trophy dash for the fastest 6 cars. The finish of the dash makes up the first three rows of the feature. From there on back is lined up from qualifying times (7 through whatever), and I know, I complain about straight up starts....but the heats are inverted so the slowest guy starts on the pole of the first heat (see my previous post/rants about keeping guys, and girls, interested). If you're fast and don't want to risk getting tore up starting in the back of a heat, don't run it. You'll get to start up front for the feature because once again, that goes back to the dash and qualifying times. And these races will take place at Krooser's track, because he pays $ for the heats (Yes!!!).

[Highside Hustler25]

I've looked down that finishing order at FC and I'm still trying to figure who those 8 crates were? I could see maybe 3 only because I am not familiar with them.

I do remember years ago, about the time Pierce was getting started in Supers, their were crates that would run @ FC. If the track was dry, like sometimes it was, they were 1/2 way competitive. They didn't win but they were not embarrassed either.

I seen Matt Shannon was in a Super this past weekend

[play4kps]

I have no problem with crates! Hell imagine the car count if their wasn't any! One problem that nobody talks about is the lack of support for weekly racing. Half these people on here want to bash guys who don't have the money to compete with the Lucas or WOO guys. I get sick of guys bashing Rusty Schlenk, huh, all he is doing is helping other drivers and trying to grow the sport. And these people have no problem laying out 30 bucks for a bloomquist or Oneal shirt but scoff at buying a local racers shirt for 10 or 15 bucks. And people are expecting tracks to raise purses, I would like to know where the money will come from. Most tracks are doing their best to stay open. And lets be honest 2 major touring series is not good for the sport. These guys are spending their way into bankruptcy. Changing chassis every week, unlimited money of shocks, perfect example a few years ago Frank Heckenhast jr sold his washed up club 29 to John henry and bought a new chassis. John henry took the car to the world at Eldora and shined with it. When you go to the World or dream at Eldora, 75% of the shirts for sale are Eldora shirts, how can the drivers even make any money selling shirts there. And sadly that is the one track that could really change racing in a big way with the money it brings in. On another note when did it become mandatory for local late model and modified drivers to have double stack trailers and elaborate haulers to go 100 miles or less down the road.

[pfd60]

Tracks need to stop qualifying for weekly races. Do the passing points system. Makes for better shows for the fans and cuts the night down by 45 minutes to an hour. This way works. Just go to a Powri midget show and watch the good drivers drive to the front. It is way more entertaining than a train late model race without an invert. Then the big money motor wont matter. Or do the body changes to make a big motor less useful. I have raced different types of dirt cars. My last was a super late model in central Illinois. That I fund myself like Jet. Last year I sold out because of a growing family that limited me racing, and the frustration with qualifying. I'm not a good qualifier. mostly moved up after that. if you don't qualify upfront you are doomed the rest of the night. I'm with jet. Draw for heats. I won a heat at Peoria a few years back and it kept me hooked. That's when they were drawing. The average Joe like me will get tired of it and stop wasting time when you dont have the funds or time to even come close to a top 3 at Fairbury. They are barely getting a full field now. I missed racing so much I have got the newest and best car that I have owned sitting in my shop with a crate motor in it. Have not even raced it because im thinking of just selling it and saving more money for a cheaper open motor again. From what I hear the cheating in the crate class in my area is bad. im not a cheater and wont cheat. I shouldn't feel defeated before I even race the dang thing but I do. If I need to cheat to compete i wont even race or go back to supers and hope I get a top ten. I should just sell it all and be done. just my thoughts. Thanks

[Forward Bite]

Rules to slow down race cars are hard to enforce and end up costing racers more money. An engine claim is the best way to keep cost down. With an engine claim rule any size and type of internal combustion engine can be used by any racer. No need to limit RPM or tech engine. If one racer wins too much he can be claimed.

[grt74]

I guess I'm not seeing the need or reasoning behind the entry fee? Whenever I see an entry fee, I feel the track/series is hoping cars break before the consi/feature so they don't have to pay them anything and would then profit off their being there (the entry fee on top of pit passes/concessions/etc.). Or is it a gimmick so you can show the start money as one thing (in this case $200), but it's really only $120 because we overlooked the $80 entry fee? At least help me understand the need/reasoning behind it, as I know virtually nothing from the promotional side of things.

And @ptown (I apologize, but my reply function has never worked on here), I know you often take a bunch of grief for some of your posts, but what 8 cars from 8/25 at Farmer City were Crates? I was one of the 18 cars that started the feature, and despite not being much faster than some of the "Crates" around these parts, I am every bit a SLM as I can be with my availability of resources. I actually can't think of one Crate that ran our class that night, but maybe I'm wrong. If the comment was meant to be insulting, then by all means join me one night and tell me where I am going wrong. I'll even pay your way in!

So as for the original problem/solutions, I'd love to see the old days of a trophy dash for the fastest 6 cars. The finish of the dash makes up the first three rows of the feature. From there on back is lined up from qualifying times (7 through whatever), and I know, I complain about straight up starts....but the heats are inverted so the slowest guy starts on the pole of the first heat (see my previous post/rants about keeping guys, and girls, interested). If you're fast and don't want to risk getting tore up starting in the back of a heat, don't run it. You'll get to start up front for the feature because once again, that goes back to the dash and qualifying times. And these races will take place at Krooser's track, because he pays $ for the heats (Yes!!!).

the reason for the entry fee is so the tracks don't take all of the burden, it won't work with out one, tracks are having a ruff time for the most part, im really just trying to look out for the sport as a whole, more rules =more money, and thats if they get in forced(we have that now in crates)
from talking to several guys and teams, an entry fee wasn't a big deal as long as it was reasonable,

at 1000 to win, if you do win you might have broke even,3 pit passes, race fuel, rr tire, laps on the engine, and fuel for the truck to get there and poof you might have broke even, there is just no chance to even break even for the night(for the most part) with 1000 to win, and it doesn't take rocket science to figure that one out

now im completely aware that we are not in it for the money, hell the top guys couldn't do it if they didn't get sponsors and product sponsors, but it would be nice to break even or maybe make a little for the night if you are lucky enough to get a win, and thats where im going with this

any dirt late model racing is expensive if you running up front, thats just the facts to compete
i don't believe the answer is to split the classes up the way they have, crates were to help get people started and use up old equipment that was considered out dated, now look at where we are at

save the supers, thats what got us here, and how are you going to get a shot at a big race with the summer nats , woo, or lucas, if your not used to running a super???
and the fans love out of control racing, because you just don't know what could happen, youll have to be there to see it!!!!

[play4kps]

At Oakshade the racing is usually good, cheap food, big crowds, and lets be honest, they dont put any money back into the place. But thats ok with me, Id rather watch great racing at a dump than crappy racing at the Taj ma hal.

[Krooser]

play4kps is spot on....

[namgalf]

Crates did not run with the Late Models at FC.

[Krooser]

But a crate COULD run with the supers....

When I was younger we had so many different engine combos... the modified coupes had 283's, 327's, FE Fords. Chrysler Hemi's, Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles...every possible make. The fast guys made the main...the others ran the semi. 40 car fields... or better. When a guy went to the Chevy dealer and bought a 375HP 327 'crate' motor everybody bitched because they were INCREASING the cost of racing... funny how things change.

Maybe we had it right 60 years ago....