Aero/downforce

[onlyfacts]

Some on here need to have their memories refreshed!I've been on dlm teams since 1988, and have been to tracks from Florida to Tennessee. The racing today is 10x better than ever! More times than not, the racing is 2 wide! The lr spring behind changed racing for the better. Now, the cars can be driven around the track instead of breaking the rears loose to make them turn.Yall can have the old school days of racing......Ill take todays version!

I Agree with you 100%. People forget how bad the racing really was. Today's dirt late model has its own identity. If you want to watch street stocks most local tracks still have that class. The current dirt late model has become recognized as a top level class of racing in America and some other countries.

[Mike]

Some on here need to have their memories refreshed!

I've been on dlm teams since 1988, and have been to tracks from Florida to Tennessee. The racing today is 10x better than ever! More times than not, the racing is 2 wide! The lr spring behind changed racing for the better. Now, the cars can be driven around the track instead of breaking the rears loose to make them turn.

Yall can have the old school days of racing......Ill take todays version!

Which version Super, Crate, Limited ect.

Why is there a need for so many classes of the same type of cars....

[Highwayman]

Stop and look around, listen...

Some on here need to have their memories refreshed!

I've been on dlm teams since 1988, and have been to tracks from Florida to Tennessee. The racing today is 10x better than ever! More times than not, the racing is 2 wide! The lr spring behind changed racing for the better. Now, the cars can be driven around the track instead of breaking the rears loose to make them turn.

Yall can have the old school days of racing......Ill take todays version!

I Agree with you 100%. People forget how bad the racing really was. Today's dirt late model has its own identity. If you want to watch street stocks most local tracks still have that class. The current dirt late model has become recognized as a top level class of racing in America and some other countries.

You 2 need to wake-up and smell the coffee. No body has said they aren't FAST & EXCITING, they are, but... The cost of your excitement is leading to the death of the patient, no different from using cocaine or meth. Sure you can have the night of your life with illicit substances, but if the price is your death in the morning, what good is it? We want longevity, vitality and health for the sport, not an un-natural jolt that leaves it dead for all time... Do you not see the symptoms? Does it not trouble you the string of retirements from top to bottom all sighting the costs in both time & money as to why? I've been active in DLM since 86' and this course is unsustainable and unhealthy, period. We had popularity greater than F1 in the 70's, before the wedge came along and nearly killed it. Now here we are back at the same juncture.

[fastford]

Some on here need to have their memories refreshed!

I've been on dlm teams since 1988, and have been to tracks from Florida to Tennessee. The racing today is 10x better than ever! More times than not, the racing is 2 wide! The lr spring behind changed racing for the better. Now, the cars can be driven around the track instead of breaking the rears loose to make them turn.

Yall can have the old school days of racing......Ill take todays version!

Im with you 25, ive been around dirt racing since the 70s and i guess i still love speed , and technology creates speed , there is no answer to the rise in cost , its the nature of the beast . on my budget , i have doubts my self some times, but me and my 3 kids just get out there in the shop and work harder because if you really love it , you will keep digging and there just getting started in racing and in life.

[onlyfacts]

You 2 need to wake-up and smell the coffee. No body has said they aren't FAST & EXCITING, they are, but... The cost of your excitement is leading to the death of the patient, no different from using cocaine or meth. Sure you can have the night of your life with illicit substances, but if the price is your death in the morning, what good is it? We want longevity, vitality and health for the sport, not an un-natural jolt that leaves it dead for all time... Do you not see the symptoms? Does it not trouble you the string of retirements from top to bottom all sighting the costs in both time & money as to why? I've been active in DLM since 86' and this course is unsustainable and unhealthy, period. We had popularity greater than F1 in the 70's, before the wedge came along and nearly killed it. Now here we are back at the same juncture.

What you don't understand is that air is cheap.... bodies will cost the same..what won't cost the same is the technology and engineering that comes with tighter rules. It's what has caused the problem now. About 2-3 years ago Lucas and WOO starting making suspension rules so engineers where hired to counter act the rules. That caused the prices to rise. Then safety rules came last year and created another burden for low budget teams. If they continue to make rules the people with the most cash will be the last ones standing. Your way of fixing things is why we are at the point we are. WOO and Lucas are killing this sport one rule at a time. Everyone wants tire rules I talked to a couple teams that say they buy more tires now with tire rules than they did when it was open tire rule. And have you ever seen so many flat tires like there was Sat night at Knoxville.. I asked a crew chief after the race why all the RFs blew out.... he said because of the tire rule. At some point we need to understand they are making the problem worse with rules.

[Krooser]

New UMP body rules for 2018....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

What you don't understand is that air is cheap.... bodies will cost the same..what won't cost the same is the technology and engineering that comes with tighter rules. It's what has caused the problem now. About 2-3 years ago Lucas and WOO starting making suspension rules so engineers where hired to counter act the rules. That caused the prices to rise. Then safety rules came last year and created another burden for low budget teams. If they continue to make rules the people with the most cash will be the last ones standing. Your way of fixing things is why we are at the point we are. WOO and Lucas are killing this sport one rule at a time. Everyone wants tire rules I talked to a couple teams that say they buy more tires now with tire rules than they did when it was open tire rule. And have you ever seen so many flat tires like there was Sat night at Knoxville.. I asked a crew chief after the race why all the RFs blew out.... he said because of the tire rule. At some point we need to understand they are making the problem worse with rules.

Your points here are spot on. But I think body rules can certainly slow the cars down. And they can be implemented with a tape measure and maybe a string.

[golddirt]

Air is cheap?! Have you aired up a tire at a gas station recently?

[Hovlane]

What you don't understand is that air is cheap.... bodies will cost the same..what won't cost the same is the technology and engineering that comes with tighter rules. It's what has caused the problem now. About 2-3 years ago Lucas and WOO starting making suspension rules so engineers where hired to counter act the rules. That caused the prices to rise. Then safety rules came last year and created another burden for low budget teams. If they continue to make rules the people with the most cash will be the last ones standing. Your way of fixing things is why we are at the point we are. WOO and Lucas are killing this sport one rule at a time. Everyone wants tire rules I talked to a couple teams that say they buy more tires now with tire rules than they did when it was open tire rule. And have you ever seen so many flat tires like there was Sat night at Knoxville.. I asked a crew chief after the race why all the RFs blew out.... he said because of the tire rule. At some point we need to understand they are making the problem worse with rules.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!! You are one of the few on here that actually gets it. Could not have said it better.

[Krooser]

Maybe add 50lbs to the car even with the #1 spark plug... or keep the weight and just require it have 50 at the #1... that might help the old bodies to be competitive

[Bubstr]

I really don't think anything can be done about the cost escalation. There is always more than one way to skin a cat and these teams ill find it or buy it.

As far as tires at Kville, What I saw is most failures where from gambling on a rain shortened race. They leaned on them too hard and it didn't rain.

[Mike]

What you don't understand is that air is cheap.... bodies will cost the same..what won't cost the same is the technology and engineering that comes with tighter rules. It's what has caused the problem now. About 2-3 years ago Lucas and WOO starting making suspension rules so engineers where hired to counter act the rules. That caused the prices to rise. Then safety rules came last year and created another burden for low budget teams. If they continue to make rules the people with the most cash will be the last ones standing. Your way of fixing things is why we are at the point we are. WOO and Lucas are killing this sport one rule at a time. Everyone wants tire rules I talked to a couple teams that say they buy more tires now with tire rules than they did when it was open tire rule. And have you ever seen so many flat tires like there was Sat night at Knoxville.. I asked a crew chief after the race why all the RFs blew out.... he said because of the tire rule. At some point we need to understand they are making the problem worse with rules.

The two biggest myths in racing. Air is cheap and monopolized tires will save money.

I have said for years the current tire rules will never save anybody money. When you take away the compition a tire company can charge you what ever they want and can provide you with an inferior product. The more tires they sale the more money they make. What can you do about it?



As for the body yes it may cost the same but if that's the way your looking at it your looking at it wrong. Speed cost money. As MasterSbilt_Racer some changes to the body would slow them down some.

[Bubstr]

The two biggest myths in racing. Air is cheap and monopolized tires will save money.

I have said for years the current tire rules will never save anybody money. When you take away the compition a tire company can charge you what ever they want and can provide you with an inferior product. The more tires they sale the more money they make. What can you do about it?



As for the body yes it may cost the same but if that's the way your looking at it your looking at it wrong. Speed cost money. As MasterSbilt_Racer some changes to the body would slow them down some.

Speed does cost money and the more restrictive the rules are, the more it cost to get back to where they were. You know they are going to do it. Good point on tires.

[Hovlane]

Tire rule is bad. Tire rule when they tell you what compound you are going to use and on what corner really bad because it's normally too soft and they get trashed. It's worse when the tell you NO GROOVING OR SIPING. Not doing that causes the tire to blister in a short heat race. We are buying more tires now than we ever have. These soft compounds that they are choosing just cant handle it with out the grooving to release heat build up. We used to have piles of pretty good used tires at the shop that local racers would come purchase at really cheap prices but not anymore when we take them off the car the are junk. The local racers just have to buy new anymore for the most part since the good used tire are few far between. Why not at least mandate a hard compound????? Because Hoosier wouldn't sell as many tires. Oh one more the on these dry slick track that are most common these days a hard compound will blister also without Grooving and siping. People that argue for the above mentioned type of tire rule have never pulled our their personal check book to pay for a truck load of Hoosiers.

How can we sell more tire: Make track and sanctioning bodies mandate everybody runs our tire. Ok now how can we sell more. Have tracks and sanctioning bodies ban grooving and siping. That way the tire can only be used once. We will tell them it's a big time saver

[Mike]

Speed does cost money and the more restrictive the rules are, the more it cost to get back to where they were. You know they are going to do it. Good point on tires.

They will do anything you let them do. You have to enforce the rules that are set. That's one of the biggest reasons why we are where we are now. Some rules weren't/aren't enforced other rules were changed because the "right" person/people complained.

Just reading this thread you will see some people think rules are bad they would rather have no rules. Apparently they want it to be a run what you brung class.