Tader Masters opinion of passing points...Racing Welfare!

[Kwd1253]

Pay more points and $$$ in qualifying... start the fast guy at or near the tail. That way a guy who starts back in the field still gets a fair shake at the payoff window... it worked that way at my home tracks in WI for 40 years. A good qualifier could finish in the top 3 in season points without a win by good qualifying and enough top 5 finishes...

What if I limp a half ass time, knowing im much faster than I'm running?

[Bubstr]

Even a bad draw for passing points is evened out because you don't run against the same cars in your second heat. Ifyou runwith the tough guys in your first heat, you won't in the second heat. I think the guys complaining are the ones that have trouble finding the easy guys. What I like most about the passing points, is it doesn't train the track to be one groove train race.

There is the chance that you tear up a car racing, but there is also a chance you don't have fans to foot the bill.

[Kwd1253]

Qualifying does not belong in dirt racing.

Well it could be used in point passing. Group 6 to 8 drivers in time trial, fastest to slowest times get pick what position they want to start in heat. What group you did time trail in that will be first heat you race for points. Then second go around for passing point, do a drawing what heat they will be in. Drivers do invert what position they picked from the first heat they ran.

Some people like watching qualifying and you get invert passing point heat racing too.

[Illtsate32]

That doesn't necessarily mean you will make the feature. Take Hudson Oneal for instance. He won his 1st heat but finished mid pack (6th) and he is on the front row of a B-main. It's still a matter of getting a "lucky draw" for each heat. I will give the lucky draw to Owens. Look at his 1st heat. Starts 9th and finishes 2nd. Not a strong heat to start but 1st lap the front row is taken out. Restart puts him to 7th and he hasn't made a lap. He ends up 2nd because of the weaker competition. He starts on the pole of his 2nd round heat and wins. For some guys its a great way race and sometimes it can be bad. I'm a fan of this format but its still a matter of how well you can draw.....

Dang I dont see how a first and a sixth didnt get hudson in he must of started on the pole in the 1st heat...but Owens may have had a weak heat but starting 9th in a heat is def not a lucky draw...

[Bubstr]

Well it could be used in point passing. Group 6 to 8 drivers in time trial, fastest to slowest times get pick what position they want to start in heat. What group you did time trail in that will be first heat you race for points. Then second go around for passing point, do a drawing what heat they will be in. Drivers do invert what position they picked from the first heat they ran.

Some people like watching qualifying and you get invert passing point heat racing too.

Knoxville LM Nationals, does something like that. They give big points for time, then invert the fast eight. You get points for qualifying, heats and feature each night. It always seems the fast guys get to the front and put on a show doing it. If you sandbag you lose big points. You have to run hard every time on the track. I believe I like the doublepassing points for most tracks, to help eliminate the one groove track.

[huskerdirt]

Dang I dont see how a first and a sixth didnt get hudson in he must of started on the pole in the 1st heat...but Owens may have had a weak heat but starting 9th in a heat is def not a lucky draw...

Hudson had an average finish of 3.5.

Zack Dohm the last car in had a 3.0.

[GEAR_HEAD]

Sounds like he hates the fans like the Moyers.

[Kwd1253]

Knoxville LM Nationals, does something like that. They give big points for time, then invert the fast eight. You get points for qualifying, heats and feature each night. It always seems the fast guys get to the front and put on a show doing it. If you sandbag you lose big points. You have to run hard every time on the track. I believe I like the doublepassing points for most tracks, to help eliminate the one groove track.

I thought Knoxville did something like that. But didn't know they gave points for qualifying. You are right Knoxville does put on good show.

[slmcrewchief99]

Dang I dont see how a first and a sixth didnt get hudson in he must of started on the pole in the 1st heat...but Owens may have had a weak heat but starting 9th in a heat is def not a lucky draw...

Yes, Hudson started on the pole of his 1st round heat. I will disagree on Owens. It was a lucky draw in my opinion because he didn't really have any stiff competition in that heat. 2 cars crashed on the start because the eventual winner of the heat tried to win the race on the 1st lap. He restarts 7th because of the crash and is in 2nd after 1 lap because he was in a "weak" heat. He ends up 2nd in the heat. Gets the passing points for starting 9th. That's about as lucky of a draw as you can get. I'm sure I will get thrown under the bus for my comments but it is what it is....... Still a fan of the double heats. It just so happens that sometimes you get to be the hero and sometimes not.

[over4T]

At some of our tracks we draw for position in the heats. Winner of the first heat then draws for an invert of up to 8. Rest of the field in the main lines up in order of their heat finish. We've won heats and started as far back as 8th and we've finished 4th in our heat and been on the front row. Luck plays a part in racing and we go to race so we're happy with that format which seems as fair as possible. Qualifying just takes a toll on the car, the track and some fans' patience. Nothing's perfect, just like real life.

[Josh Bayko]

An outdated guy has an outdated opinion. This is not surprising.

[Illtsate32]

Yes, Hudson started on the pole of his 1st round heat. I will disagree on Owens. It was a lucky draw in my opinion because he didn't really have any stiff competition in that heat. 2 cars crashed on the start because the eventual winner of the heat tried to win the race on the 1st lap. He restarts 7th because of the crash and is in 2nd after 1 lap because he was in a "weak" heat. He ends up 2nd in the heat. Gets the passing points for starting 9th. That's about as lucky of a draw as you can get. I'm sure I will get thrown under the bus for my comments but it is what it is....... Still a fan of the double heats. It just so happens that sometimes you get to be the hero and sometimes not.

don't want to argue but at the dtwc starting 9th is not a lucky draw..circumstances may have helped his position but that's just the way the ball bouces sometimes still way better than straight up qualifying imo...

[chupp n bloomer fan]

The definition of racing welfare should probably be pointed to the Ray Cook series. That's just my opinion though.

Gilpin had a very fast car the 2nd round and started in the back of his heat. He also stepped on his meat and waded the front end up, fell back and then had to drive passed the cars that he had already passed once before.

That stuff doesn't happen, Gilpin is in the show and everybody is happy.

Very true both of you.

Tader don’t like it, don’t go. Very reason I’ll never go to any Ray Cook race with no heat races.

Just whining cause they fuked up. Look whose at the front, the fast guys. Just as with qualifying, fast guys will find their way to the front. Granted the track has to be good, but long as it is, you will keep the fans attention more with a few more heat races, not with qualifying.

[dirtcrazy4u]

KISS, time trails line up your heat starting position. Then let the drivers pull a pill. If you have a good car you can get back thru the field easily. Toss in some xtra $$$ for the guys that advance the most and I bet most drivers would go for it.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

KISS, time trails line up your heat starting position. Then let the drivers pull a pill. If you have a good car you can get back thru the field easily. Toss in some xtra $$$ for the guys that advance the most and I bet most drivers would go for it.

So I’m going to time trial for my heat starting position, run my a$$ off in a heat, then pull a God knows what pill?

I’d think most would rather vomit in their mouths.