Zack Dohm dqed from the pond

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  • flagone
    Senior Member
    • May 2007
    • 2861

    #76
    Taxes are left to the individual. Series and tracks send 1099s at year end to teams for winnings. Generally the driver(s) who are sampled have their money held until results are in.

    I am not familiar with how these were taken however I wanted to provide the sampling process that we use so that fans unfamiliar with the process would have a better understanding. This is not a statement of a belief of guilt of anyone but just information to offer facts regarding both the lab and what the sampling process should generally consist of.

    - When a driver crosses the scales for an event (qualifying, heat or feature) if a sample is to be taken the tire is marked by an official. Who then follows the car to it's pit area. The crew is then instructed to remove the selected tire.
    - The official has a tamper-evident evidence bag and a glass vial.
    - The crew member uses his/her own grooving iron to remove 1 sample each from front, middle and rear of tire. The tire is rotated 1/3 of a turn after each sample.
    - The crew member removes the samples from the tire and places them inside of the glass vial. When all samples are in vial it is then closed with a screw on lid and sealed with a decal.
    - The vial is then placed inside of the evidence bag and sealed.
    - Crew member signs to attest that bag and vial were sealed in his witness (official follows suit).
    - Bag is numbered or named with finish position or another designation along with THE TIRE DATE CODE
    - Sample is sent via UPS next day to lab
    - Lab attests to the sample being sealed and in good order upon arrival

    A couple of other facts about this process:
    - Tire companies REGULARLY provide new benchmark samples
    - The lab confirms that they have benchmark that matches the date code for each sample they receive
    - The lab is question is a fully credential chemical lab and has a certified and bonded chemist
    - The lab in question has been involved in testing race fuels, tires, etc for more than 20 years
    - The lab in question DOES do soil sampling but that is only a small part of their business which is certified for USDA and the State of NC (it meets the highest of standards for processes and compliance)
    - The lab in question only sees the numbers and requests that no names be on the samples to assure a blind and independent analysis
    - The lab uses mass spectrometry among other tests to break down ALL compounds. They can break it down to its most minute parts and CAN provide what those parts are.
    - The lab ONLY reports the information to its client who pays for the testing for a myriad of reasons not the least of which is to preserve the independence of the testing.

    Comment

    • Pennsboro23
      Banned
      • Jul 2007
      • 5256

      #77
      Originally posted by MasterSbilt_Racer View Post
      To be fair, the Marlar crowd blamed the lapped car, but he was pushing before that. His lap times didn't drop off at all immediately after the tangle. His car honestly just wasn't very good.
      Right, that's what I'm saying. It's not like Zack just took off and beat a great car that night. Marlar's car wasn't that good. You could tell on the video how bad he pushed in the turns and would lose a lot of time.

      Comment

      • Pennsboro23
        Banned
        • Jul 2007
        • 5256

        #78
        Originally posted by Barbecueboy View Post
        Bleaching tires is a speed secret , you didn't know that???

        The whole dam thing is just stupid.
        Not sure what you're implying. I'm aware bleach softens tires.

        Comment

        • Highside Hustler25
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2009
          • 12921

          #79
          Originally posted by Pennsboro23 View Post
          I have a harder time believing this one than other notorious tire cheaters
          You have to get caught first before you can be a notorious tire cheater. Step 1 is complete.

          I won't say one way or the other whether Zack is guilty or not. I have no knowledge or proof to warrant handing out a guilty or innocent verdict, just as nobody on 4m has a clue as to whether he's guilty or not.
          8/13/16

          Comment

          • Barbecueboy
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2013
            • 18116

            #80
            Originally posted by Pennsboro23 View Post
            Not sure what you're implying. I'm aware bleach softens tires.
            I'm implying the whole dam tire rule , it's parts and pieces and all of the uncertainties it and the drivers and teams themselves create is just stupid.

            In case I wasn't clear......just stupid.
            Where is the move over flag when you need it?????

            Comment

            • Barbecueboy
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2013
              • 18116

              #81
              Originally posted by Highside Hustler25 View Post
              You have to get caught first before you can be a notorious tire cheater. Step 1 is complete.

              I won't say one way or the other whether Zack is guilty or not. I have no knowledge or proof to warrant handing out a guilty or innocent verdict, just as nobody on 4m has a clue as to whether he's guilty or not.
              What an exciting finish to the race though........a week later........just stupid.
              Where is the move over flag when you need it?????

              Comment

              • bullring
                Senior Member
                • May 2007
                • 947

                #82
                Originally posted by Barbecueboy View Post
                What an exciting finish to the race though........a week later........just stupid.
                I'm with you. If you can't test it at the track where it can be verified by other people right on the spot, it shouldn't be a rule.

                Comment

                • Highside Hustler25
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2009
                  • 12921

                  #83
                  Originally posted by Barbecueboy View Post
                  What an exciting finish to the race though........a week later........just stupid.
                  That's where it really sux for the fans.
                  8/13/16

                  Comment

                  • Pennsboro23
                    Banned
                    • Jul 2007
                    • 5256

                    #84
                    Originally posted by Barbecueboy View Post
                    I'm implying the whole dam tire rule , it's parts and pieces and all of the uncertainties it and the drivers and teams themselves create is just stupid.

                    In case I wasn't clear......just stupid.
                    I understand that, and I agree, it is stupid. Having to deal with all this tire stuff is stupid and bad for the sport. I wasn't sure if you were being a smarta$$ with your bleach comment.

                    Comment

                    • Barbecueboy
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2013
                      • 18116

                      #85
                      Originally posted by Highside Hustler25 View Post
                      That's where it really sux for the fans.
                      You mean , the people the promoters and series depend on to keep the gates open?

                      I agree hh
                      Where is the move over flag when you need it?????

                      Comment

                      • Barbecueboy
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2013
                        • 18116

                        #86
                        Originally posted by Pennsboro23 View Post
                        I understand that, and I agree, it is stupid. Having to deal with all this tire stuff is stupid and bad for the sport. I wasn't sure if you were being a smarta$$ with your bleach comment.
                        I was, but that's just me when it comes to the tire crap..........if there is anything that will ever just make me throw my hands up and walk away from big time lm racing as a fan or sponsor i got a feeling it's going to be this whole stupid tire thing.

                        I'm just about to that point with some of it..........too many good Friday and Saturday local shows with great support division classes to watch, and I know the finish as they cross the line.
                        Where is the move over flag when you need it?????

                        Comment

                        • heinen81
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2012
                          • 205

                          #87
                          There's a margin of error in everything - you administer enough tire tests, you will have innocent teams eventually called out. This could potentially cost them fans, sponsors and ultimately, pay. Want to cripple and fold a small to medium funded team? Just f### up their tire test.
                          Look at pregnancy tests lol. 99.9% accurate and you still get a couple thousand a year with a false read. Nothing is perfect, tire testing is no exception. With everything from the risk of environmental contamination, to who handled the tires prior to purchase, there are so many variables that play into the situation, you are bound to get some innocent teams caught up in this process.
                          Sick of hearing all this "who's cheating and who's not" bs? simple. Let teams prep tires. Most preps aren't even used to soften the tire, they are used to fire tires quicker, control heat cycles, increase tire life and in a lot of cases on the tracks they run on now days, harden them. Instead of crying about a $90 can of prep that could be used to get another night out of a tire, target something like traction control which is a bigger threat to competition than prepping tires ever will be. Anyone can afford a $90 can of prep, not a 15k undetectable traction device from DTC. If you think they arent being used, your nuts. Davis doesn't stay in business this long by not selling anything. Preps are peanuts in the big picture, this issue needs to go away.

                          Comment

                          • Drop Shock
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2012
                            • 821

                            #88
                            I mean who preps a left front tire? My theory is they got a bad right rear tire from the factory. I'm guessing they sampled the right rear first and then the rest of the samples from the other three were contaminated by the grooving blade going through the right rear first. Why would he be that emotional in victory lane if he knew he cheated? Zack could have very easily not pushed the issue and ran 2nd to Marlar, this whole thing is just fishy.

                            Comment

                            • MasterSbilt_Racer
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2007
                              • 14310

                              #89
                              Originally posted by heinen81 View Post
                              There's a margin of error in everything - you administer enough tire tests, you will have innocent teams eventually called out. This could potentially cost them fans, sponsors and ultimately, pay. Want to cripple and fold a small to medium funded team? Just f### up their tire test.
                              Look at pregnancy tests lol. 99.9% accurate and you still get a couple thousand a year with a false read. Nothing is perfect, tire testing is no exception. With everything from the risk of environmental contamination, to who handled the tires prior to purchase, there are so many variables that play into the situation, you are bound to get some innocent teams caught up in this process.
                              Sick of hearing all this "who's cheating and who's not" bs? simple. Let teams prep tires. Most preps aren't even used to soften the tire, they are used to fire tires quicker, control heat cycles, increase tire life and in a lot of cases on the tracks they run on now days, harden them. Instead of crying about a $90 can of prep that could be used to get another night out of a tire, target something like traction control which is a bigger threat to competition than prepping tires ever will be. Anyone can afford a $90 can of prep, not a 15k undetectable traction device from DTC. If you think they arent being used, your nuts. Davis doesn't stay in business this long by not selling anything. Preps are peanuts in the big picture, this issue needs to go away.
                              TC just isn't that big of a deal. It doesn't work well or reliably enough depending on what we are specifically talking about. As for prep, there are plenty of other things that limit the ability of people "not in the know" to win more so than tire prep.
                              Modern Day Spec Wedge Racing

                              Comment

                              • TS FAN
                                Senior Member
                                • Jul 2008
                                • 4236

                                #90
                                I think the whole thing is unfortunate. I have no idea one way or the other. I read some interesting posts and some bias posts. I will to defer to King 1. He certainly knows more about this type of thing than i do.

                                Comment

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