Tours vs Outlaw

[RaceEngineer]

Many race tracks depend on these series for there yearly profits. With out them. Track would be closing. We don't need any more of that. There's enough cars and fans to support the series. So why drop the race count? Real fans want more races not less

That is because people won't go watch crate headliners.

[kazual]

As long as both national series remain independent then its a sign things are going along ok. If you see co-sanctioned events pop up then bet your last dollar that one or both are in trouble. Be careful what you wish for.

[Krooser]

The tours compete for drivers, fans and tracks... why would they give up any of the three? Domyou think WalMart would enter into an agreement with Amazon to limit the number of days each biz can sell?

Years ago we had Nascar, USAC, ARCA and Nascar Winston West... same basic car each running in a different region (although there was some overlap). It worked. Some drivers ran a few races in each series like Foyt did.

I'd like to see Lucas and WoO pull their rules back to match what the average Saturday night Joe
Lunchbox runs and get back to the days when the locals can run with the big biys when they come to town.

[kazual]

Krooser

My thoughts are the national teams really don’t want the Joe Lunchbacks at tour events. The race teams seem to heavily influence a lot of the day to day things such as track prep, qualifying, and rules that make it harder for the locals to be involved.

[Illtsate32]

Good feedback guys. Ya if they cut back some tracks would def lose a date. Slots for a tour race would def be at a premium and the lucky tracks would see awesome events when all the best roll in. In a perfect world the tracks that lose dates the series could alternate years so worst case scenario you would get a date every other year. Some tracks get two dates as of now so cut back to one series race per track and some wouldnt lose a date at all. My home tracks Tri City and they got two Lucas races and im not opposed to them only getting one so someone else could have a race. Im dreaming I know...

[CageFaraday]

Cage I wasnt disagreeing with ya, it wouldnt bother me if they dissolved the tours either, but since thats the direction its took in recent years I was just thinking of ways to get the best racers together as much as possible...

Cool. In my view we have the "Best"(aka most funded) together too much now as it is. The competition is way over concentrated, which further pushes out and limits smaller teams chances of making the show. There was a time, in between the demise of the NDRA and the juggernaut that was the HavATampa series, when almost all the crown jewels were NOT sanctioned, except maybe the World and DTWC. During this time, mid/late 80's and the early/mid 90's when the big guys didn't face each other every week, they tended to stay to their regions and smaller $10K shows would only draw maybe 6 travelers and the rest were regional locals who actually got run in the feature and if things went their way take home some bigger portion of the prize money. I'm not in favor of forced redistribution of wealth or anything like that, but when it happens naturally it provides opportunity for smaller teams to stay healthy and grow. When a typical race draws 24+ of the absolute best and highest funded there are, the chances of a smaller team to excel is diminished and they know this and stay away. My point is, the more concentrated the Talent is encouraged to remain the more it will continue to shrink the over all size of the sport, ie weekly super late model is dead in many areas of the country that use to be hot beds. Food for thought.

[chad1888]

i dont know how to really put it, but with one series there would not be enough feed troughs. right now you have 20 guys getting show up money and free pit passes. if you cut it back to 1 series you would only end up with 10 guys running the tour, or if you pay 20 guys show up why would i come to your race knowing that i am fighting for the 8 positions left in the show.

[Illtsate32]

Cool. In my view we have the "Best"(aka most funded) together too much now as it is. The competition is way over concentrated, which further pushes out and limits smaller teams chances of making the show. There was a time, in between the demise of the NDRA and the juggernaut that was the HavATampa series, when almost all the crown jewels were NOT sanctioned, except maybe the World and DTWC. During this time, mid/late 80's and the early/mid 90's when the big guys didn't face each other every week, they tended to stay to their regions and smaller $10K shows would only draw maybe 6 travelers and the rest were regional locals who actually got run in the feature and if things went their way take home some bigger portion of the prize money. I'm not in favor of forced redistribution of wealth or anything like that, but when it happens naturally it provides opportunity for smaller teams to stay healthy and grow. When a typical race draws 24+ of the absolute best and highest funded there are, the chances of a smaller team to excel is diminished and they know this and stay away. My point is, the more concentrated the Talent is encouraged to remain the more it will continue to shrink the over all size of the sport, ie weekly super late model is dead in many areas of the country that use to be hot beds. Food for thought.

i dont know how to really put it, but with one series there would not be enough feed troughs. right now you have 20 guys getting show up money and free pit passes. if you cut it back to 1 series you would only end up with 10 guys running the tour, or if you pay 20 guys show up why would i come to your race knowing that i am fighting for the 8 positions left in the show.

Good points guys I cant argue with ya. This is probably a slippery slope but, what if woo and lucas still puts on their normal schedule, but only made say a certain number of races actual points races. Or say you take your best 25-30 races to count for points, you have to run say 35-40 races min on tour to qualify for points title. Il take Bobby for instance, theres certain tracks that for logistics and such he cant or wont show up to, but if he could take his best 25-30 nights, he would still have to run a majority of the races. But that way him, or anybody for that matter, would stick with the tour more than just stop following it because they cant or wont go to a race in say N. Carolina. And vice versa for say like JD or Madden, im sure they would rather not count Macon as Bobby would rather not count Fayetteville or West Virginia motor speedway...js say you have to run 75% of the races to qualify for championship. I think alot more guys would stick with it...

[Illtsate32]

I think that could integrate the cars from each series, they could cherry pick their favorite tracks but still having to run 75% of the races to qualify they would still have to run tracks that they dont run that great at also...

[chad1888]

i think it would be a good idea so guys from the south dont have to drive to new york for 2 races. the only negative i can see is that is what makes a series what it is. i was on the road for 10 years before i started my family, but now that i am home and only see a few races a year, with a series race you know you will get to see guys at your local/regional track that you dont get to see. northern guys in the south and southern guys in the north.

[WisWildManFan]

So when they come to a track near you you're good with paying $70 admission a person?

[CageFaraday]

Well as I said I'm more in favor of no national tours, but the inverse of that would be 1 or 2 more national tours, making a total of 4, with "No" points, "No" Tow money, "No" free anything. Tours would schedule against each others dates but maintain a reasonable geographic distance so as not to cannibalize fans/cars from each other. Instead of a points champion, just make driver with most wins the champ and in case of a tie use best record 2nd's, 3rd's, 4th's etc. Then have the 4 series converge for a short SUPER SERIES comprised of the Crown jewels(World, N/S, DTWC, etc.) Resulting in a KING OF DIRT. Something along those lines. Just spit ballin'

[ZERO25]

So when they come to a track near you you're good with paying $70 admission a person?

Where the heck are you paying $70 for a race!

The most Ive ever paid is $45 for a pit pass at Eastbay during Speedweeks!

[bleedblue55]

Where the heck are you paying $70 for a race!

The most Ive ever paid is $45 for a pit pass at Eastbay during Speedweeks!

Never been to (PPMS) Pittsburgh, Pa I take it.

[Dlmfan123]

It’s 70 for a 2 day pit pass at pms. That’s not that bad!!