Today's cars

[Lizardracing]

The unanswerable question is how do you reverse technology advances?

Not just in the chassis/body designs but the tools that allow the technical knowledge as well that didn't used to exist.
You can't take anything from the 90's and stop the progression of technology. You can't unknow what's now known. What now known, will be applied somewhere, somehow, and then eventually you'll end up back where you started.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The unanswerable question is how do you reverse technology advances?

Not just in the chassis/body designs but the tools that allow the technical knowledge as well that didn't used to exist.
You can't take anything from the 90's and stop the progression of technology. You can't unknow what's now known. What now known, will be applied somewhere, somehow, and then eventually you'll end up back where you started.

You can't. You sure as heck can enforce dimensions and geometry. Luckily, those are the real issues, but you wouldn't know it if you have been following the rule book.

Knowledge isn't the problem. The fact the car has droop isn't directly the problem either. The fact the car blows a huge hole in the air and that the cars depend on front downforce is the problem.

[Henry Every]

Does anyone realize what liberals and lawyers would do if there was a situation where a driver could not be rescued in the event of a rollover and a fire. You keep hoping and keeping your fingers crossed, let's all see how that works out when tracks are locked up.

This already happened its how the genius rule makers came about imposing fire suppression and FULL containment seats. Just like big Gov they dont think, they react so it LOOKS like they are doing something. The Fire suppression deal I have no problem with, but when I pointed out to a series owner that his imposed full containment seat was a double hazard, first it nullifies any hope of escape out the right side. Second the design of full containment puts the drivers head in a confined space that promotes a "Ping-Pong" effect on rollovers and rough tracks. I know several drivers with concussion symptoms after racing on a rough service from their heads being ricocheted back and forth. When I pointed out how the seats trap you in the car in the event of a rollover/fire, he told me not to worry he had a blanket he was coming to get me with... So his logic was wait in the car while cooking, yeah no thanks Delmar.

Things can be improved without making Supers into mods, which really have the same issues, IMHO. Like has been said, put the bodies back like they were in 1995 and actually enforce the rules. We use to have a maximum body height rule from ground of 6 inches all the way around. If you can't bury the nose without ripping it off they'll make some setup changes. 1 spring/shock per wheel. I like the drop decks myself because it makes it easier to exit to the Right if needed. No jbars, RS panhard bar only. Front and rear wheel track must be withing 2 inches of each other. Quick and dirty but simple is always best in my book.

[dirtcrazy4u]

You can't. You sure as heck can enforce dimensions and geometry. Luckily, those are the real issues, but you wouldn't know it if you have been following the rule book.

Knowledge isn't the problem. The fact the car has droop isn't directly the problem either. The fact the car blows a huge hole in the air and that the cars depend on front downforce is the problem.

Thank you Mastersbuilt. Someone finally got it. I'm not saying we need mods or crates or even another class. Whats killing the racing is the bodies. It's trully to the point of if you get caught up in a minor bump and run and that front end gets torn up it changes the handling of the car. You see a super get into a corner hard and the hole drivers side of the car is lifting. If that deck was flat and had no way to catch the air I think you would see a big difference. OMG, that means you would actually have to drive the car.

[Lizardracing]

Modern edge tech allows the cars to maximize every rule book spec as tested and approved of in shaker tables, jigs, wind tunnel testing, load testing, shock dynos, etc...All the high end expensive stuff. Pretty soon the guy who could afford the technology to discover the minute settings got a advantage even if its super small. Put enough small ones together and you get larger ones.

I repeat, you CANNOT un-know what is now known.

You cannot go backwards in knowledge. Even if ALL bodies were 1995 bodies and measured with lazers, or better yet, all built by one company to make sure they are all the same, then lazers used to make sure they all hung the same on the chassis the modern tech still allows all the other parts of the car to become the next advantage and the cycle continues on forever.

What goes up must come down......Dirt racing will fall eventually. I don't know when, but nothing can progress forever.

Oh wait....This exact thing happened to NASCAR and it's why it sucks on TV. It's gotten so technical it's out of the realm of what most people enjoy and can even be relayed on TV. everything is down to thousands of an inch and ounces of weight and 100ths of a pound. That doesn't relay well on a screen.

Money buys tech, tech provides knowledge, knowledge provides an advantage no matter how small and in a few years the money to find the advantage is out of reach for most. It's what we are seeing in all forms of sports but I think it's more apparent in small time dirt racing.

[dirtcrazy4u]

I think if you take the ears off the nose, flatten the decks from the air cleaner to the spoiler, taller roofs, and a 5 inch spoiler with no wickerbill and no side wings. That car is easily over a second slower. That car is going to lose entry speed which in turn would make better racing. I also feel it would make a difference on the big tracks and would not dry the tracks out as much.

[fastford]

We've had this discussion before and I think we are mainly on the same page. They definitely don't need all the stupid suspension rules they continue to dream up. A body that isn't as aero efficient is in no way making it a spec or even being untrue to the historical spirit of the class.

while I do agree with you , I will say this , sprint cars seem to have topped out several years ago as far as tech goes , I think dirt late models are getting pretty close as well .....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

while I do agree with you , I will say this , sprint cars seem to have topped out several years ago as far as tech goes , I think dirt late models are getting pretty close as well .....

Sprint cars are much simpler machines. I think late models still have a decent amount of improvement left in them. I have at least 3 identified defects where the cars can be improved without any compromise. The fact that we do counter productive stuff with the suspension to gain downforce, leaves a ton of room for improvement. Some of that fact has been exploited, but not all of it.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Remember the basics of a sprint car hasn't changed. It's been a 4 bar design with a straight front axle forever. You talk about shock tech, those guys are in another area of discussion completely.

[grt74]

no wide bores would save alot, but there are alot of them out already, so it would hurt at 1st

[Josh Bayko]

Just getting back to like ‘08 bodies with flat 36” decks, flat roofs and closed in sails and actual tech to enforce it would make a world of difference and the actual change in look would be pretty subtle.

[Henry Every]

Modern edge tech allows the cars to maximize every rule book spec as tested and approved of in shaker tables, jigs, wind tunnel testing, load testing, shock dynos, etc...All the high end expensive stuff. Pretty soon the guy who could afford the technology to discover the minute settings got a advantage even if its super small. Put enough small ones together and you get larger ones.

I repeat, you CANNOT un-know what is now known.

You cannot go backwards in knowledge. Even if ALL bodies were 1995 bodies and measured with lazers, or better yet, all built by one company to make sure they are all the same, then lazers used to make sure they all hung the same on the chassis the modern tech still allows all the other parts of the car to become the next advantage and the cycle continues on forever.

What goes up must come down......Dirt racing will fall eventually. I don't know when, but nothing can progress forever.

Oh wait....This exact thing happened to NASCAR and it's why it sucks on TV. It's gotten so technical it's out of the realm of what most people enjoy and can even be relayed on TV. everything is down to thousands of an inch and ounces of weight and 100ths of a pound. That doesn't relay well on a screen.

Money buys tech, tech provides knowledge, knowledge provides an advantage no matter how small and in a few years the money to find the advantage is out of reach for most. It's what we are seeing in all forms of sports but I think it's more apparent in small time dirt racing.

While I agree you can't UN-know what is known, you can regulate in such a way that maximum traction potential of the cars nullifies the usability of wide bore 900+ HP engines. At present the body rules seem to be a useless section in the book, with the nose companies making whatever they want and the sanctions giving the big thumbs up. Lots of simple things could be done to diminish the potential traction but the sanctions lack the will and intelligence to see how they are cutting their own throats at the grass roots. We use to have weight breaks for engines less than 400. you could impose a weight penalty on the wide bore stuff and its possible to walk things back in such a way thats its less financially crippling to those already invested. But something needs to be done before the DLM market crashes. Its been brought up before and its proven that it worked, but when Wedge cars were the pinnacle of technology the same thing happened, only then some smart people saw the writing on the wall and implemented "Smaller Bodies" and just like that DLM went from declining to growth that lasted for decades. We use to have a rule about not adding panels under the car, "No Tunnels", but I was watching HTF tear down their wrecked car and low and behold the entire length of the under car from behind RF suspension to the RR was paneled in creating a tunnel...WTF? These sanctions are derelict of their duties and a freaking joke. JMO

[fastford]

Sprint cars are much simpler machines. I think late models still have a decent amount of improvement left in them. I have at least 3 identified defects where the cars can be improved without any compromise. The fact that we do counter productive stuff with the suspension to gain downforce, leaves a ton of room for improvement. Some of that fact has been exploited, but not all of it.

when you say room for improvement , do you mean while maintaining the current body (down force ) rules?

[84wedge]

Did anyone see the roof of JD's car? It has V shaped protrusions all the way across the back like some sort of stealth technology.

[ride height]

I’m surprised nobody has made the body panels with evenly spaced dimples…like on a golf ball. Why? A golf ball without dimples flies 30% less distance without the dimples. It’s pure physics. Dimples reduce the air friction in flight. Probably would work somewhat on a race car. I know late models without a roof go faster. Most of y’all know that…but ya…a golf ball has dimples for a reason. You get a farther shot with the same amount of energy compared to a smooth surface.