Hoosier A40S

[blncfn57]

harder tire would make at least the tires costs less, less to buy and last longer so this would be an improvement and harder to hook up would help the class. Yes fast dudes will be fast still. The current program is not working so its easy to say that ideas wont work, but we already know whats not working, its called the current UMP and there over priced tire, to continue to go down this path is not the answer

would it cost less? are you going to say that when the hot shots are doping their tires and if you don't you are back in the same boat you are now? Who covers the cost of the labs to check tires to keep people from doping them? It all costs money! Have you ever been to an open mod show where they allow IMCA/USMTS type rules along with UMP? The tires are not that big of a difference. The guys that run hard tires all the time are very good on them and they win against the emod tires a fair share of the time. Racers are not going to give up on traction. Take the simple things like tires away and it will cause more to be spent somewhere else to make up for it.

How many heat cycles can be put thru a tire before it isn't any good anymore? If a tire has tread that still looks like new, does that make it a good tire? Even with a hard tire, isn't the guy that can afford new ones the most often at an advantage?

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the guys that should be in hornet cars to begin with complained and got the soft tires and spoilers taken away. What happened? The guys that spend time working on their cars instead of complaining how unfair things are, went to florida and put down faster lap times than they did with the soft tires and spoilers. Yet we still have people thinking hard tires will bring their backmarker friend up to speed with the guys that work on their stuff and can drive!

rant over

[wadegarrett]

would it cost less? are you going to say that when the hot shots are doping their tires and if you don't you are back in the same boat you are now? Who covers the cost of the labs to check tires to keep people from doping them? It all costs money! Have you ever been to an open mod show where they allow IMCA/USMTS type rules along with UMP? The tires are not that big of a difference. The guys that run hard tires all the time are very good on them and they win against the emod tires a fair share of the time. Racers are not going to give up on traction. Take the simple things like tires away and it will cause more to be spent somewhere else to make up for it.How many heat cycles can be put thru a tire before it isn't any good anymore? If a tire has tread that still looks like new, does that make it a good tire? Even with a hard tire, isn't the guy that can afford new ones the most often at an advantageLike I mentioned in an earlier post, the guys that should be in hornet cars to begin with complained and got the soft tires and spoilers taken away. What happened? The guys that spend time working on their cars instead of complaining how unfair things are, went to florida and put down faster lap times than they did with the soft tires and spoilers. Yet we still have people thinking hard tires will bring their backmarker friend up to speed with the guys that work on their stuff and can drive!rant over

ok let's see so you are saying that we are somehow better of with no engine rules and a soft overpriced tire....so it costs more to run the class and somehow this is better?"""I don't agree. What you think people aren't doping tires now?? Lolwouldn't matter cause ump is not doing any tech anyway. this class would be much better off with a cheaper tire that's harder and costs less and some tech right now things are not great and costs are way up, so again exactly how is the better?I have new for you, you can work on your setup 24/7, but right now the top cars in ump have 25k in engine alone,....and a soft tires to hook it up with. Try hooking up same hp on harder tire, and it will not be near as easy. Not only that but a cheaper tire allows more teams to get newer tires. We have been doing it the ump way no for years and the only class that's growing are bmods and sport mods. If your theory is correct then why aren't amods growing in numbers??

[blncfn57]

ok let's see so you are saying that we are somehow better of with no engine rules and a soft overpriced tire....so it costs more to run the class and somehow this is better?"""I don't agree. What you think people aren't doping tires now?? Lolwouldn't matter cause ump is not doing any tech anyway. this class would be much better off with a cheaper tire that's harder and costs less and some tech right now things are not great and costs are way up, so again exactly how is the better?

I don't think you get the point. The guys that are fast are fast because they live, eat and breathe racing. They spend time working on their cars and understand what the car needs instead of guessing and spending money where they don't need to. The guys that rely on others to tell them how to setup their car and don't understand why they are making the changes are often outspending the guys they are crying about and/or accusing of cheating. These days everyone wants and has the ability to buy a bolt together car, no skills needed. They want to spend stupid money on a car because such and such has one and wins all the time. There are no secrets! Yes, the cars today are sophisticated, but the folks racing them are human and you just have to be better than them. There are no secret, magical parts that they only have access to.There are ways to save money. You don't have to go buy a $20,000 mullins motor to compete if you can work on one yourself. You don't have to pay a chassis builder to fix your stuff if you know how to do it. If you don't know how to do any of the stuff yourself to save money then I question just why in the he!! you are involved in it to begin with.

[blncfn57]

ok let's see so you are saying that we are somehow better of with no engine rules and a soft overpriced tire....so it costs more to run the class and somehow this is better?"""I don't agree. What you think people aren't doping tires now?? Lolwouldn't matter cause ump is not doing any tech anyway. this class would be much better off with a cheaper tire that's harder and costs less and some tech right now things are not great and costs are way up, so again exactly how is the better?I have new for you, you can work on your setup 24/7, but right now the top cars in ump have 25k in engine alone,....and a soft tires to hook it up with. Try hooking up same hp on harder tire, and it will not be near as easy. Not only that but a cheaper tire allows more teams to get newer tires. We have been doing it the ump way no for years and the only class that's growing are bmods and sport mods. If your theory is correct then why aren't amods growing in numbers??

and why is the class not growing? What class is? the 4 cylinder class doesn't have any cars either! Where I'm at the mod class has the highest car count.

[kidrock]

harder tire would make at least the tires costs less, less to buy and last longer so this would be an improvement and harder to hook up would help the class. Yes fast dudes will be fast still. The current program is not working so its easy to say that ideas wont work, but we already know whats not working, its called the current UMP and there over priced tire, to continue to go down this path is not the answer

The Question is would you support a track that dumps UMP?

[kidrock]

I wouldn't think that fast guys would give a chit if they require a hard tire or not as long as it last and saves everyone money. It is only beneficial to them to keep as many racers as possible in the class.

[blncfn57]

I wouldn't think that fast guys would give a chit if they require a hard tire or not as long as it last and saves everyone money. It is only beneficial to them to keep as many racers as possible in the class.

I also don't think they care if the guy that is constantly running 3 laps down at the end of the race can afford tires to race.......

[blueracer11]

I like 4 bar cars.... a lot of them cars out there to get hands on reasonable.....just restrict the engines is what makes it cost affective and get us a good tire....

Indy, do you not understand that 4 bar cars ARE the exact same car as 3 bar cars? Your set up is the only difference. You remove the top bars, lock the bird cages, and remove the liftbar/torque arm and replace with a pull bar. Waa laah, 3 bar car. Easy to drive, easy to tune, and does not hook up as much HP as 4 bar. Combine that with hard tire, and some tech, and you have a good class that more can afford to run.

[indyboywilliam]

I do understand ... just my opinion that its not the way to go..... like a__ __ holes everyone has one lol

[wadegarrett]

The Question is would you support a track that dumps UMP?

kidrock why yes I would certainly support a track that is non UMP, bring it on !! I hope others would as well. I know more than one person that runs USRA now, and they are far from perfect but a much better option that UMP. Cheaper tire that last longer a some actual tech and still have liberal engine rules.... seems like a decent fit. I realize this is not easy and promoters would have to switch....what I will say is what we have now is not working. for those of you that dont go to STL racing much, or in case is was not already posted Hoosier will no longer make the A40S they are going back to the A40 compound from before. In the end what it means to me is that UMP will do whatever Hoosier wants whenever Hoosier wants it and we pay the bill. Arent others sick of the constant alphabet soup from UMP and Hoosier ??? Race in Indiana great you can Run D40s Race in IL or MO you must run A's and maybe Hs because the A40s are not so good right now RAce with USRA you need one tire thats 30 bucks cheaper and last longer....seems like a real easy choice. Why cant UMP go with one tire ???? Cause they are too busy putting money from Hoosier in there pocket.

[CsR41]

According to Hoosier Midwest, Hoosier is NOT making a 26.5 H for UMP. They state they have been lobbying for it for years.

[blncfn57]

Arent others sick of the constant alphabet soup from UMP and Hoosier ??? .

No, for the most part the guys are happy until the guys racing 2 classes above their knowledge and pocketbook start crying making them constantly change.

[wadegarrett]

No, for the most part the guys are happy until the guys racing 2 classes above their knowledge and pocketbook start crying making them constantly change.

a fool and his money are soon parted..... The current BS from Hoosier and UMP is well just that, no reason you should not be able to run all three tires at all UMP tracks. At 130 to 140 each it makes no sense. UMP and Hoosier are laughing all the way to the bank and everyone with some sense can see that. Part of being a good business is realizing with you are getting taken and guess what this is it..UMP and Hoosier are taking the racers to the cleaners. But hey if you are ok with paying more for poor service and a poor product then have at it. Its not a good business model. anyone can see that. oh and btw plenty are not happy with the tires http://www.stlracing.com/community/i...s-tire.220339/

[blueracer11]

I also don't think they care if the guy that is constantly running 3 laps down at the end of the race can afford tires to race.......

blncfn57, where are you getting that racers are happy? I have a question for you: if you could race your car with the same engine you currently have, the same body dimensions you currently have, the same everything, other than a cheaper tire would you do it? I would think everything else being the same, a cheaper tire would a) give the guys who fund their own racing a break on cost, and b) give the guys with more money even more tires for the same money. How is either of those a bad thing?

[blncfn57]

blncfn57, where are you getting that racers are happy? I have a question for you: if you could race your car with the same engine you currently have, the same body dimensions you currently have, the same everything, other than a cheaper tire would you do it? I would think everything else being the same, a cheaper tire would a) give the guys who fund their own racing a break on cost, and b) give the guys with more money even more tires for the same money. How is either of those a bad thing?

OK, maybe not 100% happy, but where are they? Where are the top guys at? they are not on here complaining! I'm just going to guess that they are in the shop working on their cars. The most I have heard the top guys complaining about is sh!t changing all the time, maybe I just miss them b!tching about not being able to afford it. You all just keep running them hard tires because they still LOOK good and have good tread left..... and wonder why you're getting beat. While you're at it maybe you can lobby UMP to make a rule that you have to run tires for one whle season before buying new ones!!